Kratom withdrawal
You know about Kratom addiction potential -you want to stop using Kratom! So, what can you expect during Kratom withdrawal? And how can you cope? We explore here, and invite your questions about withdrawal from Kratom at the end.
Severity of Kratom withdrawal
From personal and anecdotal experience, the nature of withdrawal from Kratom and Kratom effects on body in terms of severity and occurrence seem to depend on a number of factors. The factors that contribute to Kratom withdrawal include:
1. Duration of use – The length of time you have been taking Kratom. The longer you have been using it the more severe the symptoms.
2. Type of Kratom – The type of Kratom you have been taking. Withdrawing from highly concentrated extracts of the alkaloids found in Kratom results in a worse withdrawal experience. Method of administration usually contributes to withdrawal symptoms, but as Kratom snort is not recommended, we assume that you are taking oral doses of Kratom.
3. Previous mental health issues – Anecdotal evidence from online forums suggests that those who suffered from depression prior to becoming dependent on Kratom find withdrawals particularly difficult.
4. Personal pain tolerance -It also seems that some people just manage Kratom withdrawals better. There are many who claim quitting Kratom even after more than a year’s daily use is no more difficult than quitting caffeine, while others talk about it like being hell on earth. So there certainly is a subjective element.
My Experience withdrawing from Kratom
I have personally withdrawn from Kratom after more than a year’s use and can therefore talk about my own withdrawals which I have been led to believe mirror those of others but not necessarily in their severity or duration.
I took Kratom leaf twice a day, ever day for over a year. I decided one day to quit cold turkey; I used up the last of my supply and held my breath. I knew what was coming, I had tried to quit in the past but had always given up due to the crippling sadness that had enveloped me.
Psychological Kratom Withdrawal
Within 8 hours of my last dose of Kratom, I began to feel anxious and incredibly sad, despondent and plain depressed. It is difficult to describe the sense of loneliness and desolation I felt, everything seemed amazingly bleak. For me, this aspect of withdrawals was by far the most difficult to cope with and it continued for over a month. I must stress again that this was my experience others state that all their symptoms including the despondency disappeared after 4 or 5 days.
Physical Kratom Withdrawal
The other symptoms I experienced during Kratom withdrawal were all physical and ‘only’ lasted for 3 or 4 days. These self-reported symptoms during Kratom withdrawal are similar to those seen in individuals undergoing opiate withdrawal but are far less severe. If you have experienced other symptoms, please share them in the comments section of this article. The symptoms of physical withdrawal from Kratom included:
- anxiety
- cold-like symptoms
- insomnia (the tick-tock of the clock just went on and on, night seemed as if it would never end)
- lethargy/apathy
- RLS – restless leg syndrome (it felt as if my legs were electrified and this contributed to insomnia)
- sweating
Coping with Kratom Withdrawals
You can get through Kratom withdrawals. Kratom withdrawal can be a mere inconvenience for some and difficult for others. Here are some tips and suggestions based on my own experience about how you can cope during the period of Kratom withdrawal. Again, if you have other ideas, please leave them at the end.
- I would advise anyone planning to withdraw from Kratom to seek the advice of a sympathetic physician. A prescription for a sedative like diazepam can help with the anxiety and insomnia. The problem is, though, that many doctors have never heard of Kratom and so will not know what to do.
- You might want to take time off work/responsibilities during the initial stages of withdrawal as it can be very difficult to find the motivation to get tasks done.
- It is also good to have a friend/loved one with you during the first few days as you can get quite despondent. This should be someone who knows that you are going through Kratom withdrawals and who knows what to expect as you go through the process of withdrawal.
- If you are prone to depression anyway, then you really need to see a mental health care professional prior to quitting Kratom.
Kratom withdrawal questions
If you are going through Kratom withdrawal, you are not alone! We invite your questions about Kratom withdrawal. Or maybe you have an experience or feedback to share with other readers. Please let us know. We try to reply to all questions and comments with a personal and prompt response.
3:56 pm
March 21st, 2012
hi, i been using kratom for over 4 month . Can you help me to get rid of it
5:01 am
March 22nd, 2012
Hi Nicole. I’d suggest that you seek help from a doctor with experience in detox from Kratom to help supervise Kratom withdrawal. Do you live in a location where you can find a detox clinic?
10:55 pm
March 30th, 2012
I just quit Kratom for the third time in six years and am on day 3 of the detox and have slept maybe 4 hours in that whole time. I didn’t ever get any depression or despondancy but I feel more lethargic then I’ve ever felt and trying to get through work like this has been hell. I have to sit down evry few minutes. The worst part is I literally cannot sleep despite being so fatigued I can hardly get up and walk around. The first day I had lots of anxiety, my skin felt like it was crawling, my eyes and nose watered profusely and I had restless leg syndrome especially at night. Most the physical symptoms are gone (day three) but the utterly crippling fatigue, mental fog and insommnia have yet to abate. Just so you know I took about 20-24 grams of Bali powder daily spaced out all day. I would dose upon waking up, once or twice before work, once or twice at work etc. all the way to the point where I had to wake up in the middle of the night to dose just to avoid starting to detox. I was a slave to this plant. All those people who deny Kratom is PHYSICALLY addictive have more than likely no real long term experience with it. I can guarantee this stuff will be illegal in five years.
4:36 am
March 31st, 2012
Hi Justin. Thanks for sharing more about stopping Kratom. Has there been anything that has helped you, in particular during this detox or in the past?
10:54 pm
March 31st, 2012
So far the only thing that has really helped me is to keep a positive outlook on things and realize that no matter how bad the symptoms get I will eventually be over them. For the first two days keeping warm, taking hot showers, drinking coffee to beat the fatigue, making lots of chicken noodle soup and generally lying in bed staring at the ceiling is about all I could do but they all helped. For some reason the hot showers really gave me a boost for awhile.
The hardest thing for me right now is the insomnia. I can’t sleep for more then maybe an hour a night and if it keeps up for another night or two I feel like I will have to go to a doctor to get a few sleeping pills just to allow me to get a few good nights rest. On my own I’ve tried Tylenol Pm, alcohol, kava and chamomile but none have really worked. The alcohol (one shot of rum…and I am not a drinker at all so I have little tolerance for it) allowed me to sleep for about 30 minutes but when it wore off I was just restless.
I guess I’m worried because I hear about heavy opiate addicts not sleeping for weeks at a time after detox and while kratom is not an opiate it hits some of the same brain receptors as opiates(or so I read). I drank about 20-24 grams of bali every day for six years so I don’t know what I might have thrown out of whack by doing so. The funny thing is with Kratom I had no problem sleeping at all. In fact one teaspoon of bali powder could help me get a few hours of sleep. Despite that I tossed whatever kratom I had left and won’t be ordering more just to sleep. I don’t want it in my life anymore.
1:09 pm
April 1st, 2012
Hi Justin. If you’ve had some problems getting to sleep or staying asleep, it might help to consult an MD. Although I would not recommend sleeping pills, there could be alternative therapies that can help you get and stay asleep, or a referral to see a specialist.
4:17 pm
April 9th, 2012
Hi Everyone: Thanks for the information and letting me know I’m not alone.
Kratom has just been banned in my home state, and I’m sure more states will follow soon.
As such, I have stopped taking it cold turkey after about 3.5 months. The worst part has been the aching feeling in my bones and some pretty horrendous headaches. Exercise and hot showers help tremendously. I am not a drinker, but the first day and a half alcohol helped, except for the next-day side effects, which were bad enough for me to stop drinking.
I am fortunate enough to have never gone through withdrawals from anything more than taking Vicodin for a week. I’m on day 4 and still feeling chills, deep bone aches and mild headaches, but I know it’s something I can get through.
Thank you again for the info and for letting me know there are others who have made it through what I’m going to make it through.
2:18 pm
April 10th, 2012
Hi Aaron. Thanks for sharing. I have heard that it is also helpful to see a doctor and address any underlying or possible depression with pharmaceutical medications. Coming off Kratom makes these symptoms worse, and they can be treated!
Good luck and please let us know how you are doing.
9:56 pm
April 10th, 2012
Update: Well I quit on a Wednesday morning and it took until the next Monday night to get ANY sleep beyond a half hour/hour. I finally did fall asleep though. All symptoms of the Kratom withdrawl stopped in about a week. I flushed the rest of it and feel great. Now when I wake up I’m ready to go and don’t feel like I need anything to function although I do like my morning coffee. More than anything I feel free again, like I’m no longer a slave to some sort of substance.
What this latest experience has done is made me really want to stay off all drugs for the rest of my life. Sure they might be fun and we might kid ourselves that we can handle things and that we will never let ourselves get out of control but it almost never works out the way we want it. The high ALWAYS goes away and leaves you wanting more and there is never an end to it. With things like Kratom eventually it isn’t about the high anymore it’s just about feeling normal and not sick. That’s slavery not freedom. I was a slave to Kratom for almost 6 years, literally unable to do anything or go anywhere without making sure I was dosed up and had a ready supply. I lived in fear of withdrawls.
For all you folks thinking about getting off this plant good luck to you. It can be done and when you really think about it you’ll ultimately feel better once you’re out from under its grip. Don’t be a slave.
12:59 pm
April 11th, 2012
Hi Justin. I think that you make an important point here about addiction. Overcoming addiction is one act on the path of self mastery. Saving NO to the voice that wants us to repeat behaviors or programs of the past is so difficult…and we DO become a slave to our desires. I’m so glad that you have come out the other side. And I hope that your experience can help others looking to do the same.
CONGRATULATIONS and all the best!
9:16 pm
April 14th, 2012
hi people ive been using kratom for the last 3months, ive been taking about 15grm daily like 6-7 in the morning and 6-8 in the afternoon everyday, really enjoyable thing but… and its my first day of giving up kratom just to test my self. its been so hard for me today feeling restless, dont wanna sit, but cant stand up for long no energy at all, flu like thing, watering eyes.i thought i had the control but i noticed that kratom takes the control so fast.i will post more experiance in 2-3days,,hope i will win not the kratom. my tarket is to stop for 1week.
1:15 pm
April 19th, 2012
Hi! Great site and good to see, that there are actually some other people suffering the same way. Just to tell you quick my story:
I had a bad Tramadol habit for about 1,5 years. While quitting Tramadol I recogniced that Kratom could ease my w/d. So I started taking kratom but never stopps. Till this time you could nowhere read that it makes you hooked. So now I took Kratom almost for 5 years and approx. 60 – over 100g Powder (different types) each day. I could only function without starting w/ds for approx. 4 or 6 hours. Now I stopped using it on saturday. But due to I’m an idiot I used it sunday morning and Monday afternoon. But on Monday I throw all of my Kratom away and I am now on my third day without a break. Don’t know if I can say I am on day 3 of detoxing or if the other two days without kratom could be count. Anyway my fatigue is today a lot better. I can leave the house, going shopping but not going to work. Sleeping smeems hell to me too. Even with big amounts of Valium and bud. Today I feel restless legs and arms even in daytime. Hope that this night will be better and that I can tomorrow go to work.
But I would say after 3 or 4 days the symptoms are bearable. I know, when you are within detoxing, you’ll dont see a light at the end of the tunnel but read Justins comment! Congrats to him! And thanks to the guys from this blog.
bye!
6:38 pm
April 21st, 2012
Hi Folks! Here’s my Update. Wow, a 5 year Kratom binge is a serious problem I think. If I ignore the two days within detoxing, I used kratom and count from the really last day I flushed that away and took nothing, this is my 5. day clean and I am not feeling well. Ok, its good enough to visit my parents and be a good boy for a few hours but most of the day I am lying around, don’t want to do anything (normally I am the one who is busy all day long).
I am waiting for the night without restless legs. I am so sick of smoking pod and taking valium which is much more than using kratom. But I’ll stand it. Hopefully this night will work well.
So till now I can say: if you was a serious consumer you must definitely count a week for not able to do thinks like going to work. Hopefully sunday night will be good. Because at Monday I have to go up in the morning and without and pot and diaz binge in the night and thats just for only max 4h sleep…
Will keep you guys updated.
10:02 pm
April 24th, 2012
Okay, here we go: yes, after 3-5 days the worst wd are gone. But what I think for me the worst part is: that they are not as hard as the first few days but the won’t leave me alone. On Monday I took my last dose and now its Tuesday night. Till last night I had still restless legs so heavy that I have to smoke weed and take valium. Even daytime I feel the restlessness. And I am everytime cold (due to I am someone who nearly never freezes). Maybe this are the side effects of Kratom abuse: I felt nearly everytime warm and often were sweating. To be honest: was a big problem to me.
Okay, to cut it short: I am now 8 days without Kratom and I still have restless legs, cold chills, little fatigue, listlessness (but even a little), sometimes running nose and still very often I have to sneeze. My colleagues are thinking I have a little flue.
What I didn’t believed in front of my detoxing is the psychological effect. I thought this is something pussys have to deal with. But I you’ve liked to get up in the morning and give you the first few shots of highly potent kratom and you feel this feeling:” Hello day, whats going to do today. Work, I’m comming!” Then you took it the whole day and in the evening at home you began your Kratom binge. Great! You are awake till 1 or 2 in the morning (and thanks to kratom fit in the morning), playing on the computer, working something, repair in the middle of the night your RC and if you want, just lay to bed and fall asleep within 5 Minutes. Yes, I miss this shit!
But I have to be honest: while being a slave to that plant I didn’t liked it. Didn’t like to sweat while others feeling not warm, didn’t like to overdose and feeling bad, didn’t like to wait for the post man…and I often had times after this long year abuse, I felt this big amount didn’t make me feel good.
I have lived my life (and it was a good life) before using drugs (Tramadol & Kratom) 33 years without this shit. So where should be the problem to life the rest of my life without being dependend on Kratom?
Last statement: I’ve read everywhere detoxing lasts 3-5 days. I hope you make this experience. But be prepared after a long, long abuse in high amounts that you have to fight 1,5 – 2 weeks with detoxing (I’ve read from someone who needs 3 weeks – as long I have wd symptoms I only can hope that it not took such long for me…this evening I feel much better). Others said that they had a psychological craving for 6 months…omg…hopefully not!
All the best to you!
2:48 pm
April 30th, 2012
So…today is my day. I was given vicodin for my RA, but had been on it since my best friend passed away in 2007. It was my coping mechanism. Any way, finally got a script for a legit reason, then was totally cut off. No notice. Went in for my monthly check up, and was told too bad, so sad. Convicts go through withdrawals all the time. That last line can be quoted! Woah! I am NOT a convict! Couldn’t they at least wean me off!? I mean, they’re the geniuses that put little ole 89 lb me on the big boy dose! After a day of hell, I went to my friends head shop. And lo and behold! Lord have mercy! She introduced me to kratom. As soon as those little gel caps desolved my w/d disappeared! At first I was dosing myself to compensate for the Vicodin w/d. Then after that first week, I was able to take half the dose and get the same results. So for the last 2 weeks (3 total) I’ve been at a pretty low dose. But! I don’t want to trade one addiction for another. No more the devilish better than the one you don’t. I don’t EVER want to take another Vicodin. And I don’t want to be chained to Kratom. Took my last dose (8 caps, 4 grams) yesterday morning. Gave the rest to my mom because I want her off the Vic’s. Woke up at 7 this morning. Ungodly for me! Took an antacid and a naproxen for my joint pain. Still feel heavy and highly unmotivated. Buzzy legs, guessing that’s the restless leg syndrome), energy is zero. And I’m usually like a hummingbird. No headache, but my eyes burn. I own my own business, and am the only employee, so no chance of staying in bed. But everything I’ve read on here just enforces my drive to be addiction free! Hell! I might even quit smoking after this. I’m hoping that since my stint on kratom has been pretty short in comparison, that the withdrawal will only last 4-5 days. Have had a problem with depression, but I attribute that to a horrible break up, and the prolonged use of Vicodin. So staying positive now! won’t be so hard. I’m willing to be deeply uncomfortable for a while in exchange for the rest of my life of freedom! Y’all give me hope! I CAN DO THIS! I WILL DO THIS! Going to be a looooong 1-2 weeks. I’ll try to keep y’all posted.
9:44 pm
May 1st, 2012
I decided to check the blog again after having quit this stuff at the end of last month and have to say I’m glad to see that others are taking the step to quit this stuff too. It’s been a month or so since my last dose of Kratom and I feel great now, absolutely back to normal. The best part is that I can wake up in the morning and get going right away even if I forget to drink a coffee and when I get home from work I don’t feel like jumping straight into bed. With Kratom I couldn’t function until I had dosed up on the stuff and had a coffee and by the time I got home from work I’d nap for a few hours.
It does get better guys and gals. Just take the step to quit and ride it out. You’ll be surprised at how great it feels to not have to wonder whether or not the mailman was going to bring the goods or whether you are going to get to sneak away from friends, family or co-workers to dose up on the stuff because you know your last dose is wearing off. The chains this stuff had on me were very heavy indeed but I trust most of you know what I mean if you are struggling with Kratom or have had other addictions in the past. Sure it feels good or brings temporary relief but it ALWAYS goes away and lets you down, making you chase something unreal and, depending on the substance, makes you do stupid and dangerous things just to make sure you get your fix.
Best of luck to all you folks thinking of quitting and a big “hang in there” to all you folks suffering the crippling fatigue, restless leg, runny nose, sneezing and general achiness of the detox. One day soon you will wake up without having to make a bee-line for your stash just to feel normal.
1:45 am
May 4th, 2012
Your answer is clonidine – ask your MD to prescribe it, 3x/day, for 10 days. You will feel no withdrawal physically, and barely any anxiety.
11:53 pm
May 25th, 2012
Used for just over 3 yrs. Worked up to ~25gr/day – spread throughout day…Like Justin. I am on cold turkey day 21, and still feel pretty much the same w/d, except I am able to get SOME sleep at night, after I finally fall asleep. Still feel lazy, achey, restless, all the usual symptoms. What I am wondering, is if anyone knows whether a single dose will start the whole w/d process all over again? When is it safe to dose again, and not feel symptoms for days -> weeks? Or am I kidding myself into thinking that I can get away with 1??? I wouldn’t mind using it again, if I could somehow have the will to limit it to once a week, or so, but definitely don’t want to put myself through this month again!
10:58 pm
May 30th, 2012
I have been using kratom (commercial bali powder) for almost exactly 2 years. I would estimate I currently ingest about 40-50 grams per day (I am a big guy, but I realize that is still a lot). I have never attempted to quit, but my shipments were late a few times resulting in the complete exhaustion of my supply. The first time was absolutely terrible. I used the remainder of my kray at night before going to sleep, and the effects were already felt in the morning. When I woke up, I was almost instantly overcome with crippling worry. I broke up with my girlfriend a few months before that, and all at once those feelings of sadness/loneliness started rearing their ugly heads. As more time passed, these feelings only got worse. I originally started taking kratom daily in order to avoid the breakup misery, but I then realized that all I had done was defer it. I tried going to work to distract myself, but I came home “sick” 3 hours later. At this point, it was like I was experiencing every single negative emotion known to man – sadness, grief, guilt, anger, anxiety, etc. I also had the shakes and was sweating as if I were wearing ski gear on a 100-degree, Florida Summer day. The rest of the day was spent laying down, staring at the clock, and cussing every time I heard a truck drive by that wasn’t UPS. I tried to engage myself in other activities or think about ANYTHING else, but it was impossible. The kratom finally arrived around 7:30 pm and instantly brought me back to normal upon consumption. This was the longest day of my life, and was the first time I realized I was addicted.
That was the worst of the worst. Since then, I have come to believe that kratom addiction is at least 80% mental. I think the worst time to quit the stuff is when you don’t have any left at all. The fact that you absolutely cannot have any immediately creates an initial level of despair, even if the WD has not set in yet. Several times since the day of the story I just shared, I have gone 2 or 3 days without the stuff. Just 2 weeks ago, I went camping with a few friends. I only took about 10 grams during the first morning. The rest of the time, the combination of my good mood and a bit of alcohol left me with no desire for kratom. I felt great the entire trip. Considering that this is over a year and a half after that initial bad WD, you’d think it would have been even worse if it was mostly physical – I had at that point taken it for a much longer duration and in higher dosage. But this was not the case…So I think the key to quitting is distraction and a good state of mind (not some new groundbreaking concept).
ANYWAYS, after 2 years, I am ready to expel kratom from my life. I am tired of being tired and I am tired of my creativity being held hostage by that green monster. While I wouldn’t say kratom has ruined my life, it certainly has postponed it. For those experimenting with kratom, please keep it at just that.
I’ll write an update once the habit is kicked.
2:56 am
May 31st, 2012
Steve,
DON’T USE!!!! PLEASE, DON’T!!! Kratom ruined me-and my bank account, which means I may now lose my house. I was HIGHLY addicted to kratom extracts, and I spent every cent I had – and didn’t have – on them. I lost my will to be me….I lost everything that was in me that made me who I really am.
And yes, I thought I could use “just this once”. I quit a couple times in the past 8 years, but went back thinking I could use “just this once.” It always turned into another long run with kratom, who was happy to take more of me, from me.
Please don’t go back-you made it this far, hang in there. I’m in the midst of quitting again, and this time is IT. IM DONE WITH KRATOM. The vendor no longer sells what I was using, so I have to quit, no choice. It will get better! Don’t give in to kratom’s beckoning. She just wants to hurt you, hold you in her grip. I feel bad, physically and mentally, but I wont go back to kratom. I won’t. Screw that stuff…it will slowly steal you and your life.
I went a year without kratom, and I was happy and energetic. Why did I go back to it? Because I’m an addict…no other reason-an addict who didn’t deal with the issues she needed to in order to stay clean.
Just hang in there-you can do life without kratom! And so can I!
3:03 am
June 1st, 2012
I have been on kratom for over 5 years and really want to quit. I began by taking kratom to handle withdrawals for a vicodin addiction that I was taking for a severe pain issue. At the time, there was little known about kratom and all I read said it was non-addictive. I am not sorry I started taking kratom, it is still way better than vicodin, but I am really ready to be free of it. Over the years I have cut my dose by over half, but now when I’m nearing the end, each reduction gets harder and harder physically. I am a single working mom and cannot afford to take weeks out of work, the most time I can get to be “non-functioning” is a few days. I was wondering if anyone has tried the “restless leg” non-prescription medication available at Walmart, and if they had any success with it? For me, this is by far the worst symptom and the most unbearable, and if I can figure out how to ease this symptom my chances would greatly improve. I have to be honest, Steve’s post scares the bejeebies out of me (I feel for you Steve!), as I could not function through a month of severe withdrawal, I am too much of a weakling! So I’m trying to be as prepared as possible… any suggestions are welcome, and thanks so much for those who updated their success stories, it really helps!
12:12 pm
June 1st, 2012
You guys should really tell it like it really is. I have been on this stuff for four years now and it is not the demon you make it out to be. It has helped me get my college degree and has helped me through some overall pretty challenging times. I used to resort to alcohol during those times and that is what ruined my life and has made me fail many times. Kratom is wonderful but it is so damn expensive I have a hard time using it myself. My wife reminded me the other day how much I was spending on the stuff and it made me sick. Something like $1000 in the last three months. If it was cheaper I can guarantee that none of you would be on this site right now. Just like I would not be. I am a daily user by the way and I probably have worse withdrawals than you do. I quit for three months once. I felt just really irritated, unfocused, restless and all of the above for about a week or two and then I would use a little pot before bed time. By the way I hate marijuana. But it works for getting to sleep at night. Getting some rest will speed the process up. Your body recovers faster when you sleep. It even helped me during the day after I had enough THC built up in my system. Hope that helps some of you. Stay away from Benzos though. Chances are you will become more addicted to those and talk about slavery; you can die from those withdrawals. A few celebrities have already. I am going to take a different approach this time though. I just ordered a new batch tonight. I am going to make thirty little baggies that I also bought and make that 16 ounces last me the entire month. I do not want to stop and I figure I can afford $160 dollars a month. I would spend more than that on useless crap to entertain myself if I did not spend it on Kratom anyways. But if you really think Kratom is the devil and you need to get away from it then stay away from real drugs my friends. Just say no.
9:11 pm
June 1st, 2012
Tom, while kratom is not in the same class as benzos, it is still a drug and all drugs have their dark sides. I personally have no difficulty paying for it, so that is a nonissue in my decision to quit. I’ve gotten and maintained a good job while taking it daily and finished my masters while on it as well, so it is definitely possible to function and get things done (which is why I said in my previous post that it did not completely ruin my life). I simply want to quit because 1) I hate being dependent on anything (even needing coffee in the morning makes me uneasy) and 2) to regain my identity. Before taking kratom, I would come home from work and write, compose music, or meet with friends. On kratom, I just want to go home and be by myself while I play video games or watch TV. Kratom sapped any ambition I once had.
If you are happy with it, then that is nobody else’s business. The point of this page is to demonize the addiction itself and help those looking to quit in their journey.
As for my path to freedom, yesterday, I cut my usual daily dose of 40-50 grams down to 25. I don’t think I will have success doing it cold turkey, so I am going to wean myself off over the course of a couple months. So far, the drop in dosage has been fine. I noticed it very slightly a couple times, but there was never any discomfort.
2:35 am
June 2nd, 2012
Day 28, and still cold turkey. WDs have mostly subsided, but still lack energy. Pretty much sleeping through the night. To Tom, money is no issue for me. So you are wrong about that being the reason for being on this site. This has nothing to do with the cost, at least in monetary terms. For me the cost is what I would consider freedom…Freedom from my next dose. I feel like I am through the worst of it, and plan to keep it that way. No “just once” in my plans at this time. It is nice to wake up, come home for lunch, and home from work and not have the first thing I do be brewing a batch. That made me feel like a prisoner. I agree the RLS thing was about the worst symptom, since that was what seemed to keep me from sleeping. If I had to do it again, I would look into the clonidine that Ridge mentioned, at least for short-term. I am no longer so achey, also. I wouldn’t call it the devil, but I would definitely warn anyone considering this stuff, to seriously consider their will power, and whether they would be able to limit their usage. Good luck to anyone else going through this! Reading these posts has helped me. I also agree that when I first researched Kratom, all I seemed to read was how it wasn’t addictive, and actually used to break other addictions. If only I had known…To Bleu, I hope the best for you, and will be taking your advice. Thanks and all the best.
4:38 pm
June 2nd, 2012
I understand how you feel Tom, because I don’t want to villafy kratom either; I looked into every possible detox option available for YEARS to get off of vicodin, and I truly believe I would not have been able to do it through “conventional” methods, as they all required money I didn’t have and an extended stay in a hospital (my daughter can’t take care of herself!). So kratom was a SAVIOR to me. But there are addiction issues, and from my research, they can vary from minor discomfort to withdrawal symptoms similar to those of coming off heroin. From what I’ve read, the type of kratom (these vary WIDELY – one type can be an entirely different animal from another), how you take it (smoke it/ingest it, etc) and what you take it for makes a big difference. Those who use mild kratom occasionally have a very different experience compared to those who use it daily, etc etc etc. I personally have severe w/d symptoms, I take it several times daily via capsule, and have to get up an hour early each day to take my dose to avoid them. I am AGAINST the government ban of kratom, because without it I would have been in a world of trouble. At this point, I am ready to get off kratom because my energy levels are very low except when I first take it, and the withdrawal symptoms are scary, it frightens me to be that dependent on anything. I can tell you from personal experience that after 2 hours after missing my dose, I get SEVERE restless leg syndrome EVERYWHERE, not just my legs but my whole body has the feeling the need to move and stretch and it’s very uncomfortable – I must look like a crazy person while going through it. It keeps me from sleeping and has woken me up in the middle of the night. I also get freezing cold, nothing can warm me up, I also yawn incessantly, which doesn’t sound bad but trying to work while yawning every 30 secs. is not a good thing. I get severe cold symptoms – body aches, stuffy nose, extreme fatigue, almost like I have the flu. And that is after just two hours past my dose. I have never made it longer than that because the symptoms are terrible. I believe everyone should be able to make their own choices, and I appreciate that your symptoms are very mild – I’ve heard that many times from people that they do not suffer severe w/d symptoms from kratom, and I ABSOLUTELY agree that kratom is better than alcoholism – I’ve seen what that can do to people first hand and if kratom keeps you from it, you should take it! Just please don’t say I’m not “telling it like it really is” because my experience has been very different from yours and what you experience is not the only response to kratom. I’m curious – that sounds really expensive, I don’t pay even close to that and I take kratom every 3 hours, what type of kratom do you use? Is there a way I can contact you via email? I may be able to suggest a site for you.
5:39 pm
June 4th, 2012
Melanie, have you considered trying to first transition to a weaker form of kratom, such as bali powder, before quitting?
11:58 am
June 5th, 2012
This is my story. A number of years back I had a few bouts with opiate withdrawal. They were short but rather violent experiences. After the opiates I started drinking. I wasn’t totally out of control but I’d have four drinks a night and often more on weekends. I discovered Kratom a few years ago. From the first time I tried it I basically stopped drinking. It worked really well. My doctor was happy with me because my blood work was looking much better. I certainly felt better but that was the problem. I felt great! I started using the strongest extracts I could find because they gave me a short but enjoyable rush. Once I was using extracts I really didn’t increase the amount I was taking. I found that too much would make me feel lousy so I stuck to a strict measure. While using Kratom my career was going great and my life seemed in control. However, over time I became more and more isolated. After work I had to get home to go through the daily routine. At first my friends wondered what was going on with me but I just kept telling them I was busy. After a while they kind of gave up on me and I don’t blame them. What started to wear on me was my lack of sleep. I found that if I indulged after work then by 9:00 PM I had tons of energy and couldn’t sleep. Over time that started to wear me down. After two years of this I finally decided that I had enough. I just picked a Saturday and quit. My logic was that I had a whole weekend to get better before the week started. Big mistake. For the first two days I slept like I hadn’t slept in years. On Monday I felt that sickly feeling, mental fog, lack of energy, and chills/sweats. At night I had horrid “restless body”. It was in my whole body, not just my legs. It took a good three weeks to really start feeling better. After that, I went six months without drinking or Kratom and was feeling great. Then I figured “I can control it now. I’ll get some and only do it once a week”. Wrong. Six months later I’m back in the exact same situation. I finally decided that it’s time to stop again. I wasn’t looking forward to going through the whole ordeal again but what choice did I have? This time however I tried using a taper. When I indulged I usually mixed the extract with water and chugged it down. This gave me that initial “Whooosh”. I noticed that when I used capsules didn’t have the same effect. They worked but it was more like a time release profile. I’m not sure why. I used capsules for ten days and slowly reduced the number I took each day. Did I feel lousy? Yes. But I didn’t feel nearly as lousy as I would have if I had just stopped. Above all I could sleep at night. Four days ago I stopped all together. It has been really tough but not nearly as tough as the first time. I still feel ill and I get some restless body at night but it’s not nearly as bad. I feel like I’m going to get through it OK. I think Kratom is a very useful substance and should never be scheduled. It got me to quit drinking and for that I’m very grateful. For those of you, like me, who went too far and are struggling to quit. Hang in there. Well, that’s my story. I hope it was useful to someone.
4:41 pm
June 6th, 2012
Hi Guys,
I am coming of kratom, I have been on it probably a year and a half the hard stuff, ultra enhanced dosage about 2-3 tablespoons every couple hours. Before the kratom I was on other things so I never really came down.
I have been off it about 4 weeks, physically I am better but mentally I am depressed and I had depression to begin with.. I am on meds so the pshycological effects are still hard on me.
When I came of I came clean with my dad, I had no more kratom Day one I was shaking my vision was blury , hot and cold sweats and dizzy. Second day, anxiety no sleep rls, had not eaten. I had found some kratom in my room I thanked jesus downed it and threw it back up uncontrolably. Then I started to shake and broke down told my father. He drove me to a walk in clinic where they sent me to the ER
I was admitted and was in the hospital for about 8 hours. I was dehidrated and they pumped me with IV fluids and had no idea about Kratom.. Credit to my ER doctor, she spent a good hour looking online and got the chemical structure and knew what might be in store for me.
she gave me some meds to bring down my blood pressure and sent me home. The meds she gave me made me real tired and I exerted myself real easy. I stayed home from work for a week. These pills made me real tired and I could barley move. I called my Pcp and he instructed me the dosage was set too high he cut it in half.. Even after, I still was tired so I just stoped taking it.
Week Two – back on the job, real irritable and hostle, no motivation at all truley had to drag myself threw the week..I have had dihariah even up to now week 4. Joint ache still especially my back.. My sugestion to someone out there going threw this bad like me??.
Stay in toch with your PCP your going to need them!
If just coming off dont be affraid to go to the ER if the landing gets hard. Dont get dehidrated!!!..
Having someone near who knows and can drive you places helps big time.. while my father did not like it he was there for me and said he was proud of me for doing what I was doing despite the crap he gave me in the meantime
.
Thats where I am feel free to contact me if anyone needs some moral support!!!!
8:25 am
June 11th, 2012
I am very grateful to have found this site. I am currently going through kratom withdrawal (I’ve been using the bali powder), and am doing my best to tolerate it. I started taking kratom as a substitute for opiates when I was getting repeated ovarian cysts that would rupture. Doctors prescribed oxycodone, morphine, etc. And those drugs were very harsh on me.
I have been taking kratom on and off since about 2009 (because of the ovarian cysts), and that slowly progressed from taking it once or twice a week, to every day. My doses peaked at one point (1.5-3 TBSP per day), but then I lowered it to .5-1 TBSP per day at most (and that is what I’ve been taking for the past 3-5 months).I have stopped it before, and I got the restless leg stuff for a night, plus some nausea, but this time it is a lot worse.
I can’t wait for these symptoms to go away (especially the restless leg and the nausea, so I can at least sleep).Thankfully, I’ve got ginger root and gravol to help with the nausea, but I really wish I could sleep more than anything else. My brain is a mess, I’m so sweaty, and my stomach is in weird knots.
I have read about how kratom has been a financial toll on people – I haven’t had this issue at all. I would buy it in bulk online from a store in my country, and it was actually quite cheap. I put much less money towards kratom than I did to alcohol (and I don’t drink a lot). Regardless, just because it is legal and easily available does not mean it is harmless.
I can go just over 24 hours without taking any kratom, and be okay, but once I go right over that 24 hours, withdrawal kicks in and boy is it unpleasant.
My brain is mush right now, but I’m so glad I found this. I will check back
6:01 pm
June 15th, 2012
I’ve gone on/off kratom several times in 6 years. Usually I can go cold turkey without any issues – and I have multiple times – going for months on, then months without it, never feeling a withdrawal of any kind. The last 18 months have been different, though. I was in a terrible place back at the beginning, and so much has changed now. I’m no longer in the terrible place I was, where I first began using it to numb the sting of a failed 9-year relationship, and the loss of a loved one.
I only ever used crushed or powdered leaf – I never dabbled in extracts. Given how powerful the leaf can be, I had no interest in extracts, and I think the people who make/market them are utterly irresponsible.
Usually I have no trouble with stopping – but now I’ve been using bali powder using daily for 18 months – 2x a day. 4g in the morning and 8-10g at 5-6PM. I can wean down to smaller amounts easily but if I stop, I get the restless legs, the sweats, etc. It’s a different dependency this time.
In order to quit you have to lower your doses, and extend the time between them. You will have to “pay the piper” eventually in some way, when you do go cold turkey at the finish line. I fully expect to face a weekend of feeling sick.
I consider this about 2X as strong as coffee ‘addiction’ – it’s a gray area for sure. I would have the same apprehension about quitting my morning coffee, but I’ve done that before. I want to quit now, and am weaning the dose down over time. I hope some day soon to be free of it entirely. It’s a monkey on your back, for sure.
People who insist it’s not addictive, that you can quit at any time – I now think of you as apologists. You are not on the level.
2:12 am
June 16th, 2012
Cold turkey day 42. Still not sleeping like a champ, and have RLS most of the time, and especially when I first lay down. Was just about to have a dose of tea. I had convinced myself that I can have just one dose a week, and not have any problems. I started boiling some water and came back here, to see if anything would convince me not to have any. Thanks to JustHuman, I dumped out the water, and am going to refrain. It just doesn’t seem worth the chance of starting to withdraw all over again. The last thing I want is to be facing the same problem tomorrow of feeling sluggish, wanting a dose, and having an argument with myself if it is ok or not, although I suppose I will be facing that whether I have some or not. Hopefully it will be easier each day to not have any, if I don’t ever start again. Not sure if I will ever take Kratom again, but until I don’t feel any of the ill effects of using it for 3 yrs, it just doesn’t seem worth it. Hopefully even after all of the bad effects are gone, I will be able to remember how lousy it is coming of of this stuff.
1:17 pm
June 18th, 2012
Well, I tapered for weeks, and finally dropped it altogether yesterday. I’m paying the toll today. I did not sleep last night – restless legs, runny nose, watery eyes, depression. I needed 3 cups of coffee yesterday not to be lethargic. This stuff needs to be regulated, and come with warning labels. It’s an addiction in the true sense. All of you out there who sell it – you are proto-drug dealers. I am completely serious.
2:32 pm
June 19th, 2012
Now I’m sailing past 48 hours – I got only a little sleep last night. It’s getting better today, though. Body is lethargic, the mind heavy and a bit unstable – mostly pangs of sadness, anxiety, and that ‘hollowness’ of reality moving more slowly, and with less enthusiasm. One learns the true meaning of “will” since it takes so much effort just to move about. I can feel everything settling back down, equalizing. I’m having to deal with the reasons I medicated in the first place – what I’ve been running from. There’s an element of honesty with oneself, in realizing the drastic changes of the last 18 months.
I’m writing all this down so people who’ve been addicted to Kratom only (and in my case, just the leaf powders) might have an idea what to expect. In my case I had coaxed out it’s euphoric, bracing effect’s duration by about 3x, through mixing it with traces of a few other things. Not the smartest exploration. I will not ever divulge that recipe to anyone. I wish I had known more about this plant when I first encountered and used it, back in 2004. There wasn’t much info about it, then.
9:00 am
June 20th, 2012
Hi Ally…
I can relate to your story and your “brain feeling like mush” I am going to take a guess and say, you probably have poor cognitive function, hard time paying attention and bad short term memorey.
scared that your brain will be stuck like this forever… I went threw the same thing a few years back when I came off alchohol.. I went on a bender weekend and drank 24 hours for 3 days hard stuff. I came off I felt probably what your feeling…It does get better, your mind comes back.. Its a amazing thing.. Your brain is like a big electrical box with circuts running all around what happens is your brain kind of “reprograms” itself instance “OK this circut does not work anymore, need to develop or find a shortcut”. Also go see a Pshycophrmacologist I know I did not spell that right.. Tell them what your going threw be honest and they will most likey prescribe you 2-3 meds non additive but help recovery time in half.. They help bring back the nurons that where toasted.. I dont want to tell you how long it took me to “come back” its diffrent for everyone the point is I did come back and felt normal.. I also had the kratom experiance as well so I can relate to that as well…Take it one day at a time try not to think ahead saying “oh god I am going to be like this forever”. It will make you more depressed and depression is a HUGE factor in the scheme of things. I found when I got depressed I would just take a nap.. Kind of shuts the brain down you wake up, kind of like rebooting a computer when it screws up..
You will be ok just stay off the bad stuff.. take only precription meds.
9:49 am
June 20th, 2012
Hi Guys,
My friend and I both got into this stuff over a year ago..Why I stopped?.. Money and they stopped selling the endo Enhanced the most potent kratom you can buy.. It was a blessing, I know I needed to get off… I was not even getting the warm feeling anymore just taking it to stop WD.. Well I woke up before my friend did please heed my advice cold turkey does not work with the majority.. If you got off it that way great for you!! Those who try the “taper” method it really does not work. Your still taking it and your going to have those hard days where you say screw it take a big dose and back in the rabit hole you go.. My buddy who turned me on to it is trying or has been trying tapering… He called me yesterday, at the beginning stages of WD he was miserable. Only thing I can do is try to give back to any of you that have suffered or are suffering from this thing..
you can beet it.. Please if you need help go see your PCP. don’t worry about work, that was the first question I asked. They by law as most of you know can’t disclose anything. They will most likely give you a doctors note that will simply say ” Please excuse so and so from work for XX amount of days. Thats it no details.
5:52 pm
June 22nd, 2012
Ive been on Kratom 1 year now., 156 grams last me about 4 days. I have quit many times through the year, Ive had 1-2 day withdrawal. I think the worst withdrawal was 4 days. But they were very very mild compared to Prescription Opiates. I DO sympathize with my fellow kratom and ex kratom users. TAPER YOUR DOSE, less and less then be done with it. Drink water and take Flintstones vitamin c ( not the one with Iron) stay away from caffiene. You guys must admit, it is safer than anything out there for Opiate witdrawal. However, it is what it is. If you desire to quit, DO IT. You all have the power, not any of the substance. Oh, and another thing that did help was loperamide. IN NORMAL dosages. Ive decided to hang it up for a bit. But I know ill be fine. Take care guys
3:03 pm
June 25th, 2012
Well, here I am, 8 days since I touched the stuff. The withdrawal period of no sleep has passed, and I am now sleeping well. I took ashwagandha and kanna (sceletium) to ease the more difficult parts – depression, anxiety and other psychological symptoms. Exercise has helped immensely. I feel better. I really could’ve picked a much less stressful week to end my dependency, but these things happen. My body and mind were just so sick of it – my wallet, too. Do yourself a favor. Stop. Tough it out. It’s definitely worth it.
9:20 pm
June 29th, 2012
Hi, I am going to assume right off that I probably will not make many friends here. You might assume things about me that are not true and then discard my questions. Dunno. I am really asking. I want to know.
My dad was a blackout drunk. I should have been the addict he was but it didn’t turn out that way. I have tried lots of things but never heard of kratom. I read a lot of sad stories above about withdraws, but seriously… Whats the down side of using kratom while your on? Does it do something to your body? Do you shrivel? Is your mind actually damaged by kratom? I listen and when reading between the lines kratom seems like marijuana because it can have some side effects but none as damaging as say like cigarettes or alcohol.
The withdraws seem like they are a challenge but also not really life threatening. So what is really so bad about it? What I kinda really want to know is how fun is it while your on… but I’m gonna bet no one will answer that one here
8:35 pm
July 8th, 2012
Chris, I will be completely open and honest with you. On another page written by this author I went into detail about my experience but I won’t do it here, just a summary. I to was a black out drunk. I wouldn’t drink for weeks but when I did I had no breaks. It was usually on the weekends and Monday was typically hell. Because of alcohol I almost lost the most important person in my life and almost lost a great job. Then I discovered kratom on accident. My urge to drink completely disappeared and I have not had a drink in over a tear and a half which is something I never imagined I could do. Some people ask me why don’t I go to therapy or meetings. Usually the person you are talking to is not an addict, just college trained. And second, I have very strong beliefs and I don’t want anyone using there supreme being to try and help guide me. Now back to the topic. You can see that kratom has helped me emmensily. And the euphoric feeling I get from it is like no other. But there are several factors that one must way before trying it, like your Dad. Does he have an extremely addictive personality? Has he ever been physically addictive to any drug? Kratom can be life saving as it was for me but on the other end of the spectrum it can be a serious problem if you become addicted. Your whole focus throughout the day is when am I going to take my next dose, or will I be able to take it. Is the UPS truck going to make it today. Will I have enough to get through next week. Things like that. And the withdrawals. As they are not life threatening like some drugs they are a pain in the butt to deal with. The psychological effects can last for months causing the best of them to get right back to it. Kratom is enjoyed by thousands as a recreational drug who do not abuse it. It can also help you get off and stay off the worst of the worst. As in my case is it defiantly better than alcohol. Some of us always need a constant I am afraid to say. So there are so many factors you must weigh while the biggest one being is their a chance for abuse. If their is I would stay away. As you can see from some of the comments is that it becomes hell to quit and can have a strain on relationships and finances.
7:41 pm
July 11th, 2012
Austin I thank you. I am blessed in that I was only ever addicted to the things of spirit. Those lessons learned by the ones around me served to educate me past the yearnings for those constants, as you say. Since my post here I continued to educate myself. I pursued the ins and outs and ups and downs of Mitragyna speciosa and the impact it can have in human experiences. I find that for the most part, online voices are those of the afflicted. Most of the wanderlost are the ones most willing to pipe up and disavow the fun of their adventures into kratom. That is not to say I deny those who simply puked on first try and my sympathies do extend… but I merely point out the loudest voices are those who are bored and need stimulation in the sense of recognition for cries for sympathy. I have come to fine the vast majority view kratom as simply a beneficial herb. some for pain and some for fun. A small percentage dose to addiction and those end up becoming our main examples. I appreciate your candor Austin and you have my respect brother.
3:18 am
July 16th, 2012
What is the best of medication used to cut down the withdrawal effect. How long the dependent on that medication . I tried sustain alone but it wont worked because of the insomnia and boredom . I dont know what i am .
1:08 pm
July 17th, 2012
@Andrew….the best medication to minimize the withdrawal is benzos. Klonopine and Lorazapam(Ativan) seem to work the best. Klonopine has a longer half life but numerous studies have said that Lorazapam is better for the liver. I recommend the Lorazapam 1mg and take as needed especially before bedtime. It should only be 3 to 4 days that you need to take them to get through the worst of the worst. Then try melatonine until your body is adjusted to not having kratom in your system. Stay away from Xanax if it all possible. Good luck buddy.
4:54 pm
July 17th, 2012
Hey guys and gals – I am just coming up to this site, I found Kratom 2 months ago and have been using it everyday to help with depression and anxiety, it has worked wonders for me… I see that the majority of you ABUSE this PLANT, and with ABUSE comes problems. Just like any other substance abuse is going to take a toll on you. I use 5-10 grams a day, and I have been off for 3 days now, and the other symptoms I have are psychological, and a little muscle pain, which is completely normal for me.
Kratom used in moderation and not in such high doses is GREAT for depression, anxiety, and pain relief…. I wish you the best in the future and with your withdrawals… Used in moderation this plant is great, I don’t like to see it get a bad rap because of its addiction potential..
9:28 pm
July 17th, 2012
@Tony. AGREED. I have cut down my intake down to about 10 grams a day of Bali and like you, it has worked wonders. As I said in previous posts I am not sure if I want to quit it entirely, extremely afraid of the future. Thanks for sharing.
6:04 pm
July 19th, 2012
OK, so I am doing this for real. I tried the taper last time I posted, but I didn’t take it seriously enough. Now I am going cold turkey (sort of) and here is my progress so far:
A few days ago, I obtained some adderall in order to help me get a monstrous project completed in time. I took a dose of 10mg in the morning two days ago. While I was just expecting it to keep me awake and help with concentration, I was not expecting the pleasant euphoric feeling that came along with it. I took another dose of 10mg around one or two o’clock, and another around eight. The last dose was a mistake. I had gotten everything I needed to do done, but the adderall in my system kept me from sleeping. Although I only had that euphoric feeling in the morning, I had no desire to take any kratom at any point during the day. It was only at about 3:30am that I took about 8g of it (crushed bali) to help me fall asleep. The next morning (yesterday), I made the decision to use this revelation to help me quit K.
I spent quite a while yesterday looking up anything I could find online regarding how to deal with kratom/opiate withdrawal, this board included. While I don’t expect this to be like withdrawing from a hard drug, I want to take every precaution. I figure if there is something that can help a heroin withdrawal, it can certainly help a kratom withdrawal.
My adderall regime was pretty much the same yesterday as it was the day before; only this time, my last dose was around 5 or 6pm, not 8. It once again stymied my craving for kratom. However, I think the adderall may only take care of the mental aspect of the withdrawal (the most difficult for me to handle). For physical, I picked up some imodium AD (loperamide). I took some around 7pm; however, people say it can take hours to kick in. There was a window of time as the adderall began wearing off before going to sleep that I felt a little unpleasant, but that passed quickly, perhaps as the loperamide kicked in. Then I took a Sominex to help me sleep. It took much longer than the stated 30 minutes to effect me. It was difficult for me to initially fall asleep, but I was eventually out like a rock.
So now I just intend to do the same thing today, but will take the loperamide every 4 or 5 hours or so. It has been 30 hours since my last dose and I feel perfectly fine right now. Hoping it keeps up. After day four, I will stop taking the loperamide, or perhaps lessen the doses over two or three days. I will likely take the adderall until day 5 or 6 (when I will run out anyways).
Besides all the medication I am using, I am also trying to approach this from a different viewpoint. Rather than suffering for days due to a lack of drug in my body, I just keep telling myself I have a bad flu. It will be over in a few days, I just need to rough it out. It can help from obsessing over the urge to take kratom to relieve the pain. Well…that is what I was going to tell myself, but so far, I have not needed that mental reinforcement.
4:47 am
July 23rd, 2012
Update: Currently been exactly 115 hours (almost 5 days) since my last dose of kratom. I am surprised how easy this has been, considering I was at home all day during days one through three with nothing to really distract me. Had moments of slight anxiety on days two and three, but they always subsided quickly and didn’t leave me yearning for kratom. I took a little loperamide this morning, but am going to discontinue taking it unless I feel I really need it. I will take a smaller dose of adderall tomorrow and then be done with it.
My motivation, energy, and libido are all coming back fairly quickly as well.
7:18 pm
July 23rd, 2012
@Matt thank you for sharing your experience. Many people will definitely benefit. The last time I went called turkey the depression was too much to bear. Maybe it was because I have been masking the depression and not dealing with it properly. Well anyway, about week 3 of no kratom I felt like I have never before. The depression was so much that I said to myself I understand why people take their life when they are suffering from this. I knew I wasn’t going to take my life because I already understood it was a chemical imbalance. Anyway, stay alert, and remember any depression is just a brain chemical imbalance and that’s all. But honestly it sounds already like you are through the worst of it. How long did you take kratom and how much?
7:19 pm
July 23rd, 2012
*cold turkey…..sorry
8:21 pm
July 23rd, 2012
And *bare. I’m an idiot
5:14 am
July 25th, 2012
I’ve been taking it daily for over two years. Anywhere from 30-60 grams of crushed bali per day. Although I have a suspicion that my vendor has been supplying less potent product than they used to, so I may have unwittingly been tapering over the months…but that is just a hunch. Today marks the one week mark, but I must admit I just took a dose of 7.5 g. I discontinued the adderall yesterday, and I was pretty irritable last night, but that subsided after an hour or two. At around 10pm I was dead exhausted and was looking forward to a good comatose sleep, but then after being forced to watch a show with my gf, I was wide awake again with restless leg and all. Took some benedryl and was out in an hour or so. Today was the first day of taking nothing. I was fine until a little while ago (about 9:30 pm), when I suddenly got sweaty and had my first really strong urge to take more kratom. After a long and pointless debate with myself, I gave in. My hope is that I can control my kratom intake and have it once a month or so, but that might not be doable. If I find myself trying to talk me into taking more tomorrow, I am going to toss it all in a public trashcan where it cannot be retrieved.
BUT, I am yet to experience any depression or anxiety. I feel like kratom withdrawal for the most part just amplifies preexisting emotional instability. The couple times I did experience the depression happened during a time I was not over a breakup. Some people take kratom to manage their unrelated depression/anxiety, so I believe quitting kratom simply removes the shield.
5:20 am
July 25th, 2012
And for the record, while kratom certainly has its dark side, I definitely think it should remain legal. It does have major positives for those looking to get off harder opiates or other drugs. And for those wishing to be discreet about their addiction (who isn’t?), or those without medical insurance, it is a godsend. The extracts can go, though.
12:52 pm
July 25th, 2012
If you can try to do every other day instead of everyday it does help with the tolerance…. Taking a nice week break, and then switching to every other day has been really good for me. I still get to look forward to my kratom. Also taking some sort of benzo on the “off” days helps with the psychological “addiction” for me. Phenibut is something I have taken over the last couple weeks…. My advice is to taper if you can, and if you decide to start back up again just be careful, use it when you need it to help you as opposed to making it part of your everyday routine. If you can’t get your hands on adderall, Primatene Tabs/Caffeine are a good alternative you can get this non-prescription…..Good luck all! Hope this helps.
2:08 am
August 1st, 2012
This is an interested discussion and I’m glad to come across it because I’m having problems with a Kratom addiction right now.
A little background on myself:
I’m 25 and have had an addiction to opiates since I was 15 years old…I got started with pain medication and quickly moved up to IVing Heroin at 17 years old. I was abusing opiates because they made me feel normal and for once in my life I felt like I was “whole” but then my family/friends found out, affording a Heroin habit started to cost a lot, and I started getting incarcerated for felony Heroin possession charges. I was able to get off Heroin by Methadone detox and also Suboxone detox before but it wouldn’t last long.
I finally quit using Heroin while incarcerated, was released after a year and stayed clean from opiates for about 2 years. It was great for awhile but then I started to crave opiates again and I didn’t know what to do because I didn’t want to go back to it all.
I then came across Kratom and thought it would be perfect for me because it was legal, the info I found on it said it was non-addictive physically, and it gave me the feeling I craved.
Right now I’m dosing 7 times a day and go through a little over 250 grams in around a week…it’s to the point where I don’t even get euphoria until around the 6th or 7th dose later in the day (I guess because by then I have enough built up in my system). It sucks though because Kratom is so short acting that I have to redose between 2-4 hours after my last dose. My main reason for wanting to quit is because I want to try being free from a substance again and I’m having a hard time fitting Kratom into my monthly finances.
I have gone without Kratom before because of some late deliverys and the withdrawal for me was pretty bad…it wasn’t as bad as the withdrawals I got from Heroin but it still sucked.
I guess right now I’m trying to come up with a plan to quit Kratom….I’m not sure whether I’m going to try to taper or just jump off. I have a bunch of Tramadol (and I know not to use these or benzos for more then a few days) and can get access to 10mg Valiums but I’m not sure if any of that would help.
Also…I have nothing against Kratom and I think it should stay legal but unfortunately I have an addictive personality and it fed my Kratom use.
7:57 pm
August 1st, 2012
@Nick. What kind of kratom do you use. Bali, extracts, etc.
7:51 am
August 2nd, 2012
I use Bali, I have tried out other kinds of Kratom but I never really felt anything. I’ve never tried the extracts.
8:34 pm
August 8th, 2012
If you guys wanna get off kratom I can highly recommend buying kratom “stem and vein powder”, which is the bottom of the plant. You take 3 grams every 2 to 4 hours or so. Taking it before bedtime will also make you sleep great and eliminate restless legs.
You can buy kratom stem powder on internet for cheap.
It works so well that I even went to work without feeling the withdrawals at all. Just take a bag of powder with you to work and some large gelatin capsules
3:39 am
August 10th, 2012
Like most of you have posted, I too am in the midst of quitting Kratom. I admit, this is nothing like the withdrawals I have had from percocet, or even Vicodin, but it’s still pretty freaking uncomfortable. I’ve been tapering for the past 3 days and I’m holding strong to the plan. I’m down to 1 1/2 tsp so far from a peak of 15-20 grams a day. That seems minimal after reading some of the other posts here. I’ve been dependent on opiates since I hurt my back in 2009. I’ve been using Kratom to kick my percocet addiction. But that pretty much brought on a whole new addiction. While Kratom has been a miracle during some nasty oxycodone withdrawals, I’m done with it and just want to learn to live with my pain the way others have had no trouble doing. I often wonder why I am so weak and can’t handle pain. I have the support of a very loving partner and feel like I can beat this once and for all. I wish you all the best of luck on your way to recovery. Be blessed.
11:37 am
August 19th, 2012
I would to know wheter the writer of this blog successfully stop or still on ? I tried to quit right for a year abusing it . Please help me . I stop about 2 days and i cant do anything . Now i just tapering it slowly hopes thats worked on me . To the writer can you share how you stop ? Is it normal to feel like you are in badmood , booring , boredom , anxiety ? The worst part i think is the mental part , where it is very difficult . Is there a way to be less curving ???
1:05 pm
August 20th, 2012
@ Mat
Yes, those called secondary post withdrawal symptoms. They go away in a few weeks or so
4:22 pm
August 23rd, 2012
I have been using UEI for about 2 years and I am about to stop because it is NLA (no longer available). I used to use opiates because I had easy access to them. Right now I am afraid of the WD’s.
I am switching to a lesser extract and then taper off. There will be a time when I just quit not too far in the future. I’ll keep you posted.
8:30 pm
August 23rd, 2012
i see. now i am at tapering it slowly .i am decreasing the volume . My administration is orally and the type kratom : boiled leaf = like a tea . i felt very painful when suddenly decrease large dose of it , but today i can handle it easily . I go out , make friends , watch movie , planning all kind of stuff that i like , it’s still feel the pain but i ignore it . sometime i get very anxious and panic attack , feels like blurred and going crazy , but it will go away the duration is depend .
12:32 am
August 27th, 2012
Here’s my story: I’m a 38 yr old male. Had my first Vicodin around 15 years ago. I absolutely loved the feeling. Since then, I’ve never abused pain meds at anytime, although if i did come across a script, I’d jump at the opportunity to get some.
I found out about kratom a little more than a year ago, while casually browsing news articles on the web. The article was the typical, “state trying to ban kratom”. I did a quick google search, and started to read. I then found myself ordering some the next day.
Upon receiving it (maeng da), I was very cautious upon taking it. I took only I capsule the first day…never felt anything. The next day, I took 3….wow, I loved this stuff!
I’ve been taking kratom everyday for at least a year now. My normal dosage is just 5(2.5grams?) capsules in the morning (6-10am). I tried taking 5 more later in the day, but sometimes it was overkill, and I felt really like it was too much. Sometimes I’ll take two more capsules a couple of hours after my initial dose, and it’s like a booster…works great. As someone mentioned above, I cant really make it thru a 24 hr cycle without taking my dosage. If I dont have it, it feels like I’m trapped inside of my body desperately looking to feel “normal”. I must say that it is manageable, but very miserable(like having the flu)
Kratom is a wonderful alternative to pain meds. My job is very strenuous, and kratom helps me to cruise right thru it, with such a positive attitude, great energy, and just the most wonderful outlook on life ever!
BUT…kratom has a very dark side, which, as everyone whom has posted here can attest to. I find myself planning my morning as to when to take my dosage to prolong the effects. If I try to take more than what I usually take, it throws off my cycle, and I start to have withdrawals. I did try to quit a few times, but I always gave in to “taking a few” just so I could take the edge off(withdrawals). I’ve made it at least two days without kratom, and I was always wanting some. I really think I can quit…or at least control this.
I want to quit, but I’m really wanting to see if I can taper, so in the end I feel like I can control this. Compared to others, I don’t feel I take as much, but I think that that’s all biological. My five pills a day is just as equal to someone else’s 20…we both have tolerances, and are dealing with the same withdrawals….not sure if taking a lot more kratom increases the withdrawals symptoms though?
I’ll keep watching this thread to see what others say. Good luck to everyone, and remember they’re others out there that know what you are dealing with. I think sharing all of this info is very helpful to us all!
8:10 pm
September 3rd, 2012
Hang in there Mat. What I am going to try to is taper using capsules. So as an example if I use 40 capsules a day then I will make it the 40 day plan. Every day I decrease by one. I will let everyone know how that goes. Good luck.
3:01 pm
September 12th, 2012
Hi. I am on day 7 of withdrawal from Kratom Gold Extract. I had absolutely no clue that this stuff would for one, cause me to be addicted and two, make my body and mind do things I never experienced before when getting off of it. BUT there is HOPE!!!!
On Wednesday night last week I took my last dose. Thinking the next few days I might feel like crap but I had nothing pressing so I could handle it… so I thought. By the end of Thur I had so much anxiety I could barely stand it! Took a hot shower before bed and tried to sleep. Slept for maybe 6 hours on and off and woke up Friday morning feeling like I might die. I was sad, depressed, anxious, my heart felt like it would pound out of my chest, my mouth was so so dry, diarrea, nausea… couldn’t eat a thing. I thought if I pushed through it could only get better… so I suffered through Friday and Friday night. By Saturday morning I had given up. I needed help. At around 7 am I was waking my husband to take me to Urgent Care. They were so sweet to me. Researched Kratom, gave me an anti-nausea and anti-anxiety pill. Both only gave minimal relief for about an hour. They told me that any meds would just mask the withdrawals and I needed to get back on Kratom! I cried my eyes out to think about putting it back into my body BUT I got home and started back…. gagging all the time. Taking the Kratom again only gave a little releif. I am not sure why. Maybe because I was already in total withdrawal mode…?
Saturday 3 doses. Saturday night was a little better. Sunday morning I dosed, pushed through and showered and dressed. Even put on some makeup… I was determined to make it to church. (I’m a Children’s Pastor) Was dry heaving and barely funtioning but that morning I went up for prayer and told everyone I knew I could trust to pray for me and briefly explained what I was going through. Made it through Sunday with one more dose and was able to eat some lunch. Sunday night I only took 1/2 a dose and decided to fight through some of the other junk I was going through… nausea, headache, anxiety. But it was barable… I knew I wasn’t going to die.
On Sunday night I went back to church and I asked my Pastor’s Wife to pray for me personally. She has been fighting spiritual warfare for people for years. After I explained everything to her and cried my eyes out, she prayed for me like I have never heard. My body shook and the tears flowed so hard but when I stood up, my whole world had changed and I was ready to fight this thing! The dry heaves and nausea were bad but the anxiety attacks that never give mercy are the absolute worst… like the whole world is coming to an end, your mind is mush and you can’t function to even make a phone call…. that is the worst!!!!!!! Through God I found that I could overcome it when an attack came about. I only dosed when absolutely necessary. Sipping until the major attack was gone and then toughing through the rest.
On Monday I saw my family Dr. She took some blood, did a quick 3 min EKG and talked with me about the taper. All of the tests came back normal. She even wrote me a schedule to taper on and ensured me that i was going to get through this! What a relief!!!!
Yesterday I stayed around people. Followed my mother-in-law around. Went to lunch with my hubby. Ran some errands… anything to keep me busy and out of the house… where I usually am.
Today it has been 7 days and I am loving life and thanking Jesus like crazy!
With each day it gets better! Today I am 48 hours out from my last 1/2 dose and I slept all night long! Woke up this morning with a little nausea and some shakes. I have eaten a full breakfast and feel awesome now! I know it is not completely over… but I have the VICTORY!!!!!!!
My advice to any one who wants it would be… TAPER! See your dr or find a dr., get friends and family involved, seek God’s face! If you are truely serious about this then go big and do what you need to do to taper the right way and get help!
You CAN do it! And you will love life when it is all said and done! Don’t torture yourself and go cold turkey! I wish I would have known that in the beginning! You can taper from any strength and you can make it! Stay focused on the bigger picture and the wonderful outcome!
I wrote these on note cards and carried them with me EVERYWHERE. When I would start to feel sad or anxious… I pulled them out and read them out loud!
“…in all these things we are more than conqerors through Him that loves us.” Romans 9:37
“so if the Son has set you free, you will be free indeed.” John 8:36
Best of luck to you all!!!! May God be with you!
9:12 pm
September 12th, 2012
Im glad you made it through – I have heard that extract is far far worse on withdrawls than the normal powder, you also build tolerance faster….. In my opinion stay away from the extracts!
10:59 pm
September 23rd, 2012
Just checking in on everybody to see how the experience has been. It looks like we all had the same thing in mind about the taper. I have posted on here before but it was only recently that I started my taper. I had a three day weekend so on Friday I decided not to go about my usual pattern. The reason why is the day before, and the few days before that the kratom was wearing off faster and faster. I wasn’t taking anymore than normal but what really messed up the pattern was to add extract with the Bali. Well then I guess I did add more then. So on Thursday morning I take my usually dose of Bali, I would say about three grams. But unlike other days by 10am I was going into withdrawal. I was trying to get home but the usually aches and pains, plus the runny nose, RLS, etc. was a hindrance. But the really scary thing is I started to fall asleep at the wheel. No cars were around thankfully. I must of been out a couple of seconds but when I did come to I didn’t know what city I was in since I work and live in two separate cities. I immediately pulled off the road, got myself together, then made it home to dose. Of course I felt much better after that. And then had extract and felt really good. So now we are on Friday and I don’t take anything still concerned about what happened yesterday knowing that can never happen again. By 9am I wasn’t doing well at all. Four hours later I look at the clock and it’s 9:15. I started looking at several forums to see if there was anything I could do. I saw a posting about Immodium being good to suppress symptoms. By 12pm I couldn’t take it anymore. I took 6 gel caps of Bali and felt defeated. By 9pm I was really mad at myself for not being able to stick with it but then I remembered something. In the past I wanted to taper anyway and by 9pm I had shaven off two thirds of my usual dose and I was ok, just some RLS, and anxiety but nothing compared to what I felt the last time I went CT. I was actually making it. That night I didn’t get that much sleep but Saturday again was tolerable. Now it’s Sunday and I feel so much better. Sticking with the exact dose I started with on Friday. I saw another post on another forum and someone made a really good point. Compare how much you take daily to a flight of stairs. If you don’t take that much and it’s not extract maybe it’s ok to jump to the bottom. But if it’s a high dose wouldn’t you rather step down to the bottom? I have also seen other taper schedules people are trying to attempt and it seems to be to fast. My opinion is it could take weeks not days. I think I am going to keep at this dose for about 7 days then come down slightly for another 7 days and so on. I think kratom is a God send for some. People with chronic pain, or trying to come off heavy drugs but for me, I don’t want to be responsible for ruining something good for the few who don’t abuse it. And as I write this I still can’t get over how good I feel at the moment. Everybody take care and good luck. I will come back in a few weeks and let you know the outcome.
1:18 pm
September 26th, 2012
Today is day 2 I find my self very tired it’s more of a weak no will to do anything…I had my wife take the last of my kratom out of the house today so now I have this overwhelming feeling that well this may sound funny but as if I lost my best friend.. Last night I tossed and turned real restless and my knees are very achy is this all normal..I also have moments of cold sweats and periods of being really hot I hope I can get through this…I just felt so wonderful on this stuff….
3:47 pm
September 27th, 2012
Ok today is day 3 feeling a little tired have a little pain in my knees still..I should give a little back ground… I’m a 33 year old male been using kratom for almost a year..I would take around 10 grams of GVB 2 times a day once in the morning and once around 12ish most of the time…Every once in awhile I would take it a 3rd time around 6 to 7 p.m. why who knows maybe just enjoyed it..
Ok last night was ruff that RLS sucks worst pain in the A@# ever..It just kept me tossing and turning real irritating but some how I manged and fail a sleep “”THANK GOD”"…I know I’m all over the place with this post but please just bear with me…Most of day 2 I found myself well feeling sorry for myself would walk out of one room and then find myself crying in the next room the emotional hold this stuff has on me is crazy crying “”COME ON”" I’m a 33 year old cry baby just felt a great deal of sadness most of the day..
Today I will try and keep notes maybe it will help me in some way..I’m just not willing to become a slave to this plant and YES I will “BEAT”" this!!!!
12:12 pm
September 28th, 2012
It’s been almost four months since my last post. I’ve successfully stayed away from Kratom since then. I rarely think about it anymore but sometimes it sneaks into my thoughts. I’ve realized that I can’t place that order again or the cycle will repeat. I’m getting too old to go through that again. Understand that what I’m about to say was my experience and I’m not passing judgement on anyone or attempting to minimize what anyone is going through. I went through opiate withdrawal years ago and for me it was a short and violent event. I just kept thinking “I hope I get through this alive”. I couldn’t even leave the bathroom for a few days. Kratom, again for me, is a lot more like quitting nicotine. You have to be in it for the long haul. After a month I was wondering “why do I still feel so awful?”. When I quit smoking I remember having no energy, a crushing sadness, restless leg, lack of concentration, muscle cramps, etc. I also remember these symptoms lasting a long time. Similar to what I experienced with Kratom withdrawal. Granted, I used to smoke a lot.
For those of you who are struggling. Give it time. It’ll get better. “B.J.” commented that it’s like losing a best friend. This is exactly how I felt. A friend who was always there, a friend who would always listen, a friend that help me feel at peace. However, it’s also a very jealous friend that demanded my full attention, took away my time, my ambition, my money, and in some cases my real friends. With friends like that ….
I do want to make one thing clear. I don’t think Kratom should be scheduled in any way shape or form. Plants, in their raw form, should not be illegal IMHO.
4:35 pm
October 1st, 2012
Before anything I would like to thank the person responsible for this blog,, that said THANK YOU.. This blog was looked at and read daily through out the whole W/D’s.. I know in some way I think I feel as good or better today.. Kratom may have just been that bump in the rode short term W/D’s for sure..They where no fun what so ever but very doable.. The good side have no longer the want to drink for that I thank the use of kratom in some sort of blindsided way…Any way thought I would post one more time and be on my way… Thanks to all…
12:14 pm
October 3rd, 2012
wow..I feel like such a drug addict. Everyone who started with painkillers started because they actually needed it for some kind of pain. I just started popping perks and vics back in 2010 because I got bored of weed, and started experimenting with all kinds of stuff. Most of all I became fond of the painkillers they put me just in the state of relax i wanted to be. My addiction never became too bad I wouldn’t say, probably mostly phycological most of the withdrawals were with minor heat sweating. I quit for a small window this year for probably only about 2 months tops, only because I couldn’t get them for a while. But I feel like I was slowly but surely starting to come back around to terms with life without drugs (just fresh air and weed). But then, out of nowhere, I got a text, from a less frequented connect who said “percs on deck”. Boy was I excited to get my buzz back on again. My weed just wasn’t the same without it. I loved just throwing back 2-3 percs and just smoking a nice fat one. I would aspire to do that every day and just sit in my room and play video games. Sad? Yes. But fun, Yes. Extremely. But believe me I realized the problem. And recently, my dealer said she wont be good again for a few weeks. So what did I do in fear of my first real opiate withdrawal after consuming them like crazy for a few straight months? I went to drugs.com for to read something that might help. This was 2 days ago only. I then stumbled upon knowledge of this Kratom and began reading & researching it. At first, it sounded too good to be true, like the drug from that movie Limitless, nzt or something. Only from what I read, it didnt seem to be addictive and sounded like it existed only to re-track your life and do something positive. I then started to convince myself it was what I needed, I wasn’t even really trying to read anything bad on it, I couldn’t even really find much bad on it. Just positive feedback for the most part from A LOT of websites. So, I rushed to the headshop the next day as soon as they opened, I was practically camped outside of there like I was waiting for the Iphone 5 or something, lol. I bought a $30 sack of the Bali. 25 capsules. I said, “Ok” and I went hope and tossed back 2 of those bad boys. Didn’t really feel much that day, but I wasn’t trying to overdue it. I was already planning on rationing them out for a period of time. Even said, I felt pretty good, slightly mellow euphoria I suppose. I could barely go to sleep though. Finally, I did. This was yesterday by the way. Earlier today I was feeling kind of irritable and I didn’t know why but I also felt like crying when I saw something sad on TV about neglected dogs, lol. Thats kind of unlike me, I mean, I like dogs, but I am usually able to control my emotions better than that. I never really feel like crying. The thought arose in the back of my mind that there is no possible way these symptoms aren’t attributed to the K. But the other side of my mind was playing a great lawyer. I was just hoping it wasn’t true. But I also had (have) an extremely stuffy nose and a on-off mild headache. So I took back 2 more capsules and the pain went right away…for maybe 2-3 hours or so. The mild headache came right back. I said “am I gonna have to deal with this every time?”. I was content though. Then I made it through most of the day just chillen, but a few hours ago I had the sudden urge to just get stupid high and popped like 4 at once. I was feelin nice. But I was like damn, its gonna be hard to ration these, they’re so addicting. But I was havin a good time. Although something told me to get online and read more about them because I suspected something was wrong with my plan. And I stumbled here what do you know, I was right. The haven of all the stories the other sites dont want you to know. I now know that I am going to be in over my head trying to live with these. Although I feel GREAT, I know everything must come to an end so I’m not gonna prolonge it any longer. After I’m done typing this up I’m gonna pop the rest of these K pills remaining. I can’t sleep, and all I can think about is more K. Looks like about 15 of these badboys in here. I’ll get through as many as I can then throw the rest out if anything. I don’t know what I’m gonna do for the comedown, but I’m sure I’ve handled worse with cocaine even on a light day so I’m not sweating it too much. Just the stuffy nose thing and the headache thing is kind of hard to bear. But if those symptoms are just gonna get worse.
5:29 pm
October 5th, 2012
Mike I’m not to sure the Kratom has to much to do with what your going through.. You mentioned you have only been doing them for a very little time.. You may just have a cold or something along them lines… Now I’m not saying keep doing the kratom I just don’t think thats reason your feeling the way you are… I was taking kratom for well over a year around 30 grams a day.. This stuff could be good every once in awhile for the need to kill pain,, but do not do this every day it will become you… Good luck Mike if you need anything just ask…
8:22 pm
October 8th, 2012
I checked in a while back to see how everyone was doing. Especially the ones who have quit. For some reason my comment wasn’t posted so I will try again with an update. A little background I had been using everyday for about two years now. Sometimes it would be just Bali, other times I would use extract. I have to admit, while using Bali I felt much better and didn’t have the horrible withdrawals in the morning. Well one week it was taking less time to get to the withdrawal stage so I decided to quit. By 9am on the first day after a week of extract I conceded and had 6 gel caps of Bali. By 9pm I took another 6 to try and sleep only to realize I had stumbled on a taper method. So that first day I took 6 gel caps 5 times a day with one having to be at 3am to continue to sleep. I did this over a weekend to make sure I was going to be ok for work the following week. I have been very reluctant to quit because the last time the depression was so bad I couldn’t even get out of bed. Also the anxiety, it felt like someone was always standing on my chest, all the time. After two weeks of this I went back so I could function in this world. Sad isn’t it. So here is my opinion and taper schedule. I am down to my last days and it has been very easy to get through it without the depression and very minimal anxiety. I know everyone is different and what works for one might not work for another but from the comments we are all in the same boat. Also, we have all come to realize this is a powerful thing and going cold turkey might not be in the best interest of us. I have seen many taper schedules online and so many seem way to short with some lasting only a week. That’s not enough time. Also I believe the gel caps is the best way to measure the taper.
Day 1-3: 6 gel caps (toss and wash method) 5 times daily taking my last dose right before bed then another at 3am.
Day 4-6: 6 gel caps three times a day.
Day 7-9: 5 gel caps three times a day.
Day 10-12: 4 gel caps three times a day.
Day 13-15: 3 gel caps three times a day.
Day 16-18: 2 gel caps three times a day.
Day 19-21: 1 gel cap three times a day.
Day 22-24: 1 gel cap two times a day.
Day 25-27: 1 gel cap one times a day.
Then for a week take one gel cap every other day. Honestly I think by the time you are taking 2 gel caps three times a day you really aren’t doing anything anymore or so it seems. But I will tell you this. With this method I was able to function, work, meet with friends. Before, my depression was so bad I knew I couldn’t go that route again. One thing you need to keep in mind is this method takes a lot of self discipline. I didn’t think I had it in me but I was surprised. I never once had a “treat” for doing a good job. I always kept to the schedule. Another thing that you have to come to grips with is that all you are doing is taking enough to make you feel human and that’s it. To keep the withdrawal symptoms at a minimum. You will never feel the euphoric high using this method so don’t try and chase it. One thing that you could reward yourself with is a shell of kava. Also I have seen on other threads about Phenibut working for some of the withdrawal symptoms. Stay away from that at all costs. I don’t have the personal experience but from what I read you body becomes addicted extremely fast and the withdrawals are worse than kratom. Honestly for me the first day was the worst but by the evening I felt almost human. By day three I felt completely human and I could work. The first two weeks the only symptoms I got were by the early afternoon my joints would hurt and I felt a little anxious. But that would usually only last for a couple of hours. Never ever ever, did I experience the debilitating depression that caused me to go back. Maybe a little sensitive to things that I was never before like a sad part in a movie. Gel Caps in my opinion are the best way to taper because you can accurately measure your doses. I would recommend going on the Internet and just googling who has the best caps right now. I know I know you’re trying to quit and I am telling you to get more kratom. I just think that it does a little more to the brain then we realize and you need to come down SLOWLY. So now I am at the 1 gel cap three times a day stage and really all symptoms are now gone. I will be finished here soon then I can say I got off kratom on my own without help and from reading your threads I know you can do it to. It’s ok to get a little help in the first few days with a benzo but keep it to just a few days and only when absolutely necessary. Good luck everyone if you have any questions feel free to reply.
9:46 pm
October 8th, 2012
One last point about the taper. The first day I started every morning I took a super complex vitamin B that also had C. I immediately noticed that my energy was now coming from the vitamins rather than from the kratom which was a great feeling. Like clock work I eat some fruit with a sports drink in the morning with a nice B Complex. I think this is very important to start repairing the damage. Thanks and good luck again.
6:15 am
October 10th, 2012
I have been addicted to benzos and opiates and then to only kratom for a total of about 4 years. I need advice and help. I have tried having my parents ration small doses daily like methadone or suboxone sort of treatments to me but my compulsive behaviors always lead me back to kratom becoming a detrimental habit to my well being. I feel stuck and really really want to quit this awful substance. I can’t really afford rehab or just drop everything I am doing- full time work and school- and go off to rehab. Does anyone have any advice for me? I don’t know where to turn.
6:18 am
October 10th, 2012
I am 23 years old and accept full responsibility for my habit. I just dont know what to do next. I have never quit or tried to quit anything under a doctor’s supervision. Do many doctors even know about kratom or how it affects the brain and body?
2:04 am
October 11th, 2012
Robby you should consider taping down on plain leaf as low as you can. Then your just going to have to deal with the withdrawals. There’s no magic way out. Start exercising and eating healthy will help.
6:27 pm
October 11th, 2012
I just recently realized “what” I was going thru. By this, I mean: A sudden inability to sleep more than 30 mins every 12 hrs, a runny nose, general cold/flu symptoms, and an UTTER SENSE OF DREAD AND MISERY. My girlfriend figured this out for me….I was going thru withdrawals from KRATOM!!
My first thought was: Im not addicted to anything!! NOT ME!! Well, I was sorely mistaken. I have been drinking KRATOM for over a year for a joint disorder. It worked perfectly. I thought I had found a safe “homeopathic” cure for pain I began having in my joints when I turned 43 yrs old. Somehow, I never managed to go without it, as I ALWAYS ordered a week before I was out.
Well, I have finally realized what a hold this stuff had on me. I have maxxed out 2 credit cards by ordering $180.00 of the stuff approx every 2- 1/2-3 weeks for the last year or more. Once, I tried to order my “medicine” and my card was declined. I figured it was no real problem…..UNTIL, the 2nd day I hadn’t taken my daily “dose”.
Dear God…I have never felt such an overwhelming sense of crippling DREAD. I was absolutely miserable. I had to actually leave work after only an hour. I thought I was going to go insane before I could GET AWAY from anyone and everyone. I felt anxious, guilty, and could not keep from thinking about only the NEGATIVE things going on in my life: Bills, my car not passing emissions, etc. Things I would never give a second thought to, absolutely CRUSHED and seemed to BRUISE MY SOUL. I originally thought I had developed a cold or the flu, as I had legitimate symptoms (runny nose, aches in joints/bones). Then the sleeplessness began. Possibly the worst experience of my life. I began to freeze and stay cold no matter the temperature. Night sweats kept my pillow and sheets wet. I literally got maybe 30 mins of sleep a day before “jerking” awake….Like having a dream of falling off of a cliff, then hitting the ground JERKS YOU AWAKE. For me, this lasted a little more than 2 weeks. Fortunately, I haven’t had any issues with restless leg syndrome…and thankfully so. I truly don’t think I could handle more than what KRATOM has already unleashed on me.
Today is WEEK 3 since my last “dose”. And I will be blunt as I can….If I were a suicidal thinking person, I could probably tell you what my GLOCK tastes like. Mentally, I am a “cup is half-full” kinda guy, but these last 3 weeks have been BRUTAL on my nerves, sense of well being, and personality. My girlfriend is the ONLY person that knows what I am going thru, and I thank her for researching this issue for me (thank you, BeBe). My friends and co-workers have all reacted suspiciously of my behavior and attitude.
I had maxxed out 2 credit cards, become physically and mentally DEPENDANT on something I thought was a simple HERBAL REMEDY, alienated and worried my friends, and SUFFERED beyond the point I thought I could possibly endure. I am still having strong issues with not sleeping more than 2 hrs a day, but it is SLOWLY getting better. I am no stranger to pain and suffering. I was diagnosed w/Kidney Cancer in ’10 and thought I had met my match in reference to pain and sheer misery. However, I have to admit that these past few weeks have taught me how wrong I was.
I finally feel CONFIDENT enough to speak out about this and KRATOM’s DANGEROUS physical/psychological effects. To ANYONE out there who has tried KRATOM and intends to continue, QUIT NOW! To those out there who have decided not to be a slave to this stuff, be brave and vigilant….it will pass. I am 44yrs old and have never taken and been addicted to anything in my life. It was an absolute and total shock to my system that I was going through WITHDRAWALS. I am absolutely convinced and can honestly say that I HAVE QUIT KRATOM. I haven’t stopped….I have QUIT. I “quit” smoking on a daily basis, but I occasionally bum one when I have a drink or two…so, I havent truly QUIT…I only stopped for a while. But in this case, I have decided to take back control of my finances and my LIFE. But, I will not lie to myself or to whomever reads this……
At least once a day, KRATOM still calls my name….
5:22 pm
October 12th, 2012
Hi my name is Bill. I was addicted to 800mg’s of oxycontin per day. I took 5 80′s in the morning and 5 80′s in the afternoon. It was ruining my life and I had no way to get help, I didn’t want to turn to suboxone or methadone because they are often times even harder to get off then oxycontin.
That is when I found kratom. I took kratom for a couple of months and one day I felt like I didn’t even need it anymore. It helped me transition back to normal. Everyone that is having so many problems with it I have a word of advice, dont blame it for your own actions. Kratom is addictive and you should not take it everyday. That’s irresponsibility on your part.
For people addicted to opiates it has been a miracle in moderation to transition back to being sober. Just dont take it everyday for crying out loud.
If you really want to quit kratom i’ll tell you how to do it right now. Just stop taking it and get some sleeping pills from the Dr. or other meds. You will actually feel a lot better being off kratom. It may seem difficult, but that’s just because you keep giving in and taking more. The solution is %100 absence.
I want to say this to everyone out there. Things do get better and it is possible to quit kratom or whatever drug your using! It just takes time and a lot of hard work.
11:03 pm
October 13th, 2012
One thing I have to say is we all have to be very careful how we make our decisions and how we live with them. All I did was offer advice on a taper but certain other things I said I regret. I don’t want to add any fuel to the fire to ever have this scheduled. I know I wouldn’t have my family or my career right now because nothing else worked. But now I just feel its time to move on. I don’t regret anything. From the posts I have read a lot of us don’t even know the hell it is to be physically addicted to heroin or alcohol. Can you imagine being addicted to something that has withdrawals that can kill you? Yet there are bars within walking distance of most people. I’m not taking away anything from the experience here. It sucks. But let’s remember it has saved lives. I think what we should do here is talk people through the process. But at the same time we should never demonize it.
8:24 pm
October 14th, 2012
I am 52 and have been on oxycontin 40 mg twice a day for years and when my husband retired I could not afford them and he made to much money for assistance so I stopped , quit taking them . I have had 4 back surgeries and still in pain but could not afford meds had to give up insurance could not afford it. It has been 6 long days and it is HELL but I am doing it and will never go back I just hope it gets better . Would not recommend cold turkey but can’t afford more pills to get off pills . It tough but I am strong , it WILL NOT WHIP MY BUTT !!!!!
1:51 pm
October 23rd, 2012
This is my first time here, and I just finished reading the entire thread. I have been using Kratom to get over a more serious opiate dependency. About 3 years ago I started taking Oxycodone and before long I was up to 300mg of OC a day. After 1.5 years of using OC I decided I needed help to kick it. I found a local Methadone clinic where I went daily for 6 months to get my 85mgs of Methadone. After those 6 months my insurance stopped covering my meds and I had to quit cold turkey (or so I thought). The methadone WD’s hit me after 5 days without it due to it’s extremely long half life. By the 3rd day of the WD’s I was writhing in pain, my body locked up, I couldn’t even keep down water. The absolute worse WD’s I have ever experienced in my life. I was so dehydrated I wound up passing out in front of my girlfriend and not knowing what to do she called the ambulance. The doctor at the ER was not very helpful at all, but before he kicked me out I asked him for a Rx for Suboxone. I have been taking 8mgs of Suboxone a day for the last year now. About 2 weeks ago I was looking up remedies for WD and came across Kratom. I stopped taking Suboxone, and I have been using 10-20 grams a day for the last 9 days to combat the Suboxone WD. I haven’t had any symptoms of WD from the Suboxone, but now I’m ready to stop taking Kratom before that becomes a problem for me. My question is, how bad can I expect the Kratom WD’s to be? Since I’ve been using opiates for 3 years, will that increase the length/intensity of the Kratom WD? I am taking my last dose of Kratom in about 3-4 hrs and any insight into what to expect would be appreciated.
3:27 pm
October 26th, 2012
This thread is giving a completely wrong image of what Kratom is. I would say that there is a 1% of kratom users that become addicted to this plant and seems to be that this thread only shows reports from this small percentage of users. As a consequence, the readers are receiving misleading info on this plant and may have the impression that Kratom is a devil capable of destroying their lifes.
Most of these people have heavily abused this herb. I cannot believe how it is possible to consume high doses of extracts or 100 daily grams while 3 grams can be considered a single dose.
This clearly demonstrates that these guys are unable to control their life and blames kratom for this, while them are the only ones responsible.
After years of such abuses they must consider itself lucky if the only consequences are one sleepless night and a few days of minor pains when they quits the habit.
Me, all of my friends and the 99% of kratom users never had to deal with addiction or withdrawals, even after years of use. There are no special secrets, just common sense and nothing more.
This plant is a gift of god and is helping lot of person with their pains and anxiety. It also helps people to free from REAL addictions and I’m not talking of a few kids crying because they can’t sleep one night!
I CANNOT ACCEPT THAT THIS PLANT IS AT RISK OF BEING BANNED DUE TO A LIMITED NUMBER OF PERSONS WHICH BLAMES KRATOM FOR FAILURES THAT THEY DO IN THEIR LIFE.
If you guys can’t control yourself to the point of eating 100 grams of Kratom daily, you’re having the same behaviour of a children that thinks he had eaten an innocuous bag of sugar. With kratom you’re lucky enough to only experience a few days of minor pains as side effects, with other substances (included the ones that people think are safe!), you constantly are at risk of kill yourself.
I recommend users to visit KratomAssociation in order to know well what Kratom is and to not get influenced from report of users that have heavily abused of this plant at crazy levels.
1:27 am
October 29th, 2012
I am really glad to see a lot of defense in support of Kratom on here, the withdrawals can be frightening for someone going cold turkey who has never experienced them, I have yet to hear a previous heroin addict such as myself describe them as terrible. Kratom is a very nice legal option to have for those who are in pain and don’t have access to insurance/pain clinics and the medications they treat it with are much, much worse. But don’t go into this ignorant of that it is a weak opiate (partial agonist/antagonist actually). It wouldn’t be a bad idea to always have enough around for a taper.
Steve: It’s been 5 days so I’m really curious as to how your thing turned out. If you’re still taking It is my experience and my friends experience that it is much, much less than a Suboxone withdrawal, but it is still an opiate withdrawal. At 10-20 g’s a day for 9-14 days even if you have been using opiates for several years I think you’ll be rather mild, I have helped some of my friends get off of Suboxone with Kratom without too bad of side effects. I always recommend a taper with Kratom as it seems to be relatively easy to do compared to other more reinforcing opiates. In your case do a relatively quick one and stick to it. But, plan for some dysphoria and mild physical effects.
1:57 am
November 1st, 2012
Steve your probably going to have a more severe withdrawal because you were just on suboxone. Suboxone PAWS (Post acute withdrawals) can go on for a few months after you stop. The key to recovery is to taper as low as possible, then once you stop stick with it and tough out the withdrawals. It will seem like there going on forever, then one day you will wake up and feel better.
Someone posted a really good kratom taper. Use gel caps and taper over the course of a month, once you feel stable on a dose taper lower. Until you get to the point where your skipping days and taking micro doses that you dont even notice. Then you’ll almost be out of the woods.
5:02 pm
November 2nd, 2012
I am in a sober house i wwas clean for 15 months i was addicted to every drug when i was using a true garbage head but opiates was one of them and i was physically hooked i relapsed with kratom even though i havent had a drink or any other drug i know its a relapsse because ive been taking kratom everyday for 3 weeks and im starting get tolerance so i decided im gonna stop today will i get any physical withdrawals after 3 weeks of daily use??
11:18 pm
November 2nd, 2012
I’d read this page a number of times as I’d been contemplating jumping off of kratom, for probably about 6 months now. I’ve been addicted for almost two years. I remember when the new year came and went at the beginning of the year and thinking “I can’t believe I’ve been living my life around a drug for over a year.” As I was closing in on two straight years of my life being planned around dosing, it’s been weighing more and more on my mind.
I’d started right out of the gate with enhanced bali and that comprised my usage for almost a year and a half. As I’m sure most kratom users know, enhanced products from most vendors seemed to dry up during the summer and so I switched over to plain leaf. For that, I’m grateful.
I actually owe it to my regular vendor dropping credit card processing and hurricane Sandy both delaying my next shipment to the point that I enforced a taper, and not even a drastic one at that. I was at my worst doing probably 8 teaspoons of plain bali leaf a day, spaced out two or three times. I immediately jumped down to 4 teaspoons, every 12 hours.
After 4 or 5 days of this I decided I’d rather ride out at least a bit of it before work resumed (my employer shut down anticipating a direct hit from Sandy) and around midnight Monday/Tuesday I took my last dose.
Another factor is that my grandfather, who’s always been a big part of my life, was in the hospital and it was going poorly. I knew the worst was coming and felt in a way I owed it to him to feel it for real.
I’m closing in on 96 hours after my last dose. I developed some transitory chest pain on day 3 that has become more constant, I’m assuming due to elevated blood pressure, but I feel like my inability to stay warm has subsided. Days 2 and 3 I took frequent hot showers and typically wrapped up in 3 shirts and a hoodie, even “slept” fully clothed in them (sleep of course comes rarely and fitfully).
I’ve attempted to allow myself some sleep with valerian root/5htp/melatonin and also Phenibut, which I’ve only used two of the last 4 days as I’ve read this has addiction potential itself and I don’t want to prolong the symptoms if possible. Phenibut has succeeded in putting my down for an hour or two both times I used it.
I’m curious to see how sleep tonight goes as I’ll cross the 96 hour threshold at midnight and the body temperature regulation is feeling somewhat more normal, but still definitely in the grip of withdrawal. I’ve found the posts from Justin back from March and April to be quite helpful in helping me keep a positive outlook and understand that even a long term user like myself can come out of this ok, and it’s also been a reality check in reminding me that I may only be half way through this. Still, I’m so far in now that I feel committed.I feel like I’ve got a lot of this behind me.
10:04 am
November 3rd, 2012
lately i’ve been seeing articles about how dangerous kratom is and how horrible the withdrawal is. i’m assuming the ones who say it’s as bad as oxy or heroin withdrawal were taking UEI and lots of it. i’ve never messed with the extracts (except for the first 2 days of quitting heroin) because i never took kratom to get ‘high’ but if it weren’t for bali kratom i’d probably still be doing heroin or on methodone, when used properly kratom can be a life saver. i was taking about 25-30 grams of bali kratom a day after quitting heroin earlier this year and over the last two weeks i have cut way down taking less and less a day. it’s been about 25 hours since my last dose and i don’t feel great but i really don’t feel that bad…kind of cold, yawning and tearing and lacking energy but it’s a walk in the park compared to withdrawing from heroin.
11:23 pm
November 7th, 2012
I’m closing in on the end of day 9 and am still in mild withdrawal. The chills ceased suddenly and unexpectedly on day 7. I still have to sneeze often, but the most persistent symptom has been the RLS, and also the most worrisome to me, as I’ve heard horror stories of it going on indefinitely (even here on this blog is a guy saying he’s a month and a half out and still has RLS). I’ll also clarify that in my first post here I said I’d tapered to 4 teaspoons twice a day, I meant total, so 2 twice a day. 4 twice a day isn’t much of a taper.
I went to my general practitioner on day 6 and explained my situation and was basically sent out with a pat on the head and “that’s cute, but REAL withdrawal only last 3 or 4 days, you’re upset about your grandfather’s death, here’s an anti-depressant.”
If you need help sleeping and you don’t have a good personal relationship with your doctor, you’d probably be best served just going through the motions and making up some bullshit. I was prescribed amitriptyline which magnified my RLS by many magnitudes and made me a fucking ZOMBIE the next day, worse than just insomnia. I’ve had an understanding family member share their ambien script with me, which I’ve alternated two days one, one day off with Phenibut/5HTP for sleep.
I’ve gone through opiate withdrawal before and it sucked, but it DID terminate after less than a week. Kratom was both much more intense and lasts so much longer it’s ridiculous.
1:12 am
November 9th, 2012
The 50X extract that I have been using is indeed very potent. Three or four of those capsules from my vendor produces a kratom effect of about the same strength of using a strong dose of oxy from my experience. Not as euphoric but definately strong. Of course its probably not as detrimental to your health, and probably easier to quit but i would strongly recommend staying away from potent extracts. That is when I felt like I was fully physically hooked on the stuff. Taking up to six 50X capsules a day. My withdrawl symptoms from that included vomiting, other flu like symptoms, worsened depression and anxiety, and minor twitches in my eyes and shoulders (that could be attributed to small amounts of sleep though).
1:14 am
November 9th, 2012
I do however strongly support the use of kratom to wean off of stronger pharmaceutical opiates and heroin. Much better route than taking suboxone or methadone.
6:09 am
November 9th, 2012
Finally have the strength and energy to post to this blog’s comment roll.
Kratom addiction is very very serious. I was a user of about 28 grams a day of Bali “powder” for about a year. A serious stomach virus made it so that I could no longer processes the tea through my system so that basically forced me to quit taking it.
I am thankful that I had a reason to stop. I was sick and tired of taking that forsaken drug every single day of my life. I am so glad to not wake up every morning and pump and dump that nasty nasty Kratom. Today is the 5th day without a drop of Kratom in my system and I SORT of have some energy back. Its still pretty terrible, but I do infact feel human again… I can feel my old self emerging again and I am so so very thankful.
Days 1-5 are a bitch. I dont know how else to say it, but they do get better. You won’t sleep. You will be restless. Take hot baths, try and get some Ativan, or Klonopin, tough it out. Tough it out.
I broke into tears every single day, multiple times a day. I am still breaking into tears. Its a hard feeling to articulate, but I’m talking intense sobbing, intense emotions.
I also had a very very intense feeling of being “alone”. Try and be around someone, or keep a friend on the phone.
Be prepared for VERY little energy. I’m talking like low blood sugar but WAY worse. You won’t even be able to tie your shoe laces. Its really incredible how tired you’ll be. By days 4-5 you’ll have decet amounts of energy.
Hang in there. Please everyone reading this, BE CAREFUL WITH KRATOM
6:29 pm
November 11th, 2012
Where was this information three years ago? I have a slipped disc in my neck that touches my spinal cord. Doctors put me on all kinds of stuff (some off label) for pain, headaches and lack of sleep. I didn’t like being on scripts so I searched for herbal alternatives and found Kratom. I’m a careful guy with a master’s degree in Psychology so I’m very familiar with the potential problems associated with better known products. This was several years ago, and at the time I couldn’t find any information on withdrawal or addiction. I read everything I could find on the history and use of Kratom and I decided to try it. I found that it helped with the constant pain I was in, helped me to sleep, and generally felt better. I noticed when I would run out I would start to experience what I assumed was feeling like I did before Kratom. What I now know to be the side effects of Kratom match pretty closely the problems I had before Kratom which made it hard to determine that they were side effects. Since I started Kratom I’ve tried a few other therapies that have helped (for instance a Chiropractor was able to relieve my headaches). Since I felt worse (like I used to) off Kratom I didn’t think anything else was working. I worked up to high doses (.35g of strong extract) twice daily over three years. Financially I could no longer sustain it so I stopped taking it last Thursday making this my third day off. I’m in agony suffering from most of the symptoms mentioned on this blog. I’ve barely slept for two nights. I lay there in agony with every joint and my back aching. The headaches are terrible. I’ve been in a very dark, depressed head space for the last two days. I’m exhausted, but closing my eyes doesn’t help. I’ve tried to meditate to relax and I can’t because of the constant ache. It’s like my body is in purgatory, and I know I didn’t feel this bad before Kratom so it has to be withdrawal. This is terrible, but I take solace in the other posts saying it does get better. I went cold turkey off Cymbalta, and dealt with brain zaps from that, but it was nothing compared to this. Thanks to those who’ve posted encouragement. I’ll try to respond with an update, or if I find anything that helps.
6:39 pm
November 14th, 2012
Taper your kratom when you are ready to quit. I have quit kratom frequently, and have only had symptoms when I donot taper. Kratom is forgiving, do 1/2 your dose for a week. Drop again in another week. Keep some immodium and benedryl handy, it reduces some of the w/d’s.
Valium is also very helpful to have on hand.
If you are hooked on extracts, switch to regular leaf before trying to quit.
QUITTING DOES NOT HAVE TO BE HELL!!!
1:59 pm
November 15th, 2012
Thanks Mark. I guess I’m an all or nothing kind of guy. Probably not smart, but I got through it. I’m sure everyone’s experience is different. For me weaning off wouldn’t work well because when I was on Kratom I didn’t see the problem with being on it. So once I took that one dose, or a half dose, and felt the effects I would start to think, “This stuff isn’t bad! What was my problem? Buy some more!” Feeling the withdrawal was good for me because it pointed out what Kratom was doing to me, and why I needed to be off of it. Taking something like Valium to help with the darkness wouldn’t be good for me either long term since I would gain an interest in it instead of Kratom since it made me feel better. Then I would be seeking it. I don’t have an addictive personality. I have real, chronic problems that I have to deal with every day. It’s a sucky way to live, and anything that makes it tolerable is a temptation.
I’m pretty much over the withdrawal now on the sixth day. On the fourth day I started to feel a brighter mood break through the clouds, but the lack of sleep was giving me a splitting migraine. On the fifth day I started to remember why I started to take Kratom in the first place. I still have physical problems like the slipped disc in my neck, bad back, extremely low Testosterone that’s very hard to control (doc doesn’t know why of course), I don’t sleep (just toss and turn all night), seasonal allergies, etc. Kratom masked all that. They’re symptoms of bigger problems that need to be addressed, and not covered up by Kratom.
Although I’m back to dealing with real problems now, I can also say that my real personality is back. It’s strange because I’ve been on Kratom so long that my real personality almost feels like a stranger, but it feels really good to be back.
Since I have other problems that probably aggravated the withdrawal (i.e. I don’t sleep well anyway) my experience will probably differ from others. I haven’t slept more than about 3.5-4 hours a night for the last five days. Started the second day off Kratom. I would imagine most people would start to be able to sleep better sooner.
Despite that here’s some things I found to help. First, stay hyper positive and get out of the house. Surround yourself with really cheerful music, get out in the sun, etc. You’re not going to feel like doing it, but do it anyway. Once you get out you’ll feel a little better. It’s like any other depression. It can start a vicious cycle. Listening to music that’s as depressed as you are, or holing up in bed or in front of a computer for days, will simply add to the problem making you more depressed. If you have a friend who knows what you’re going through have him get you out of the house. Not to a movie or other dark place. Go for a walk.
Something else that helped was a very specific wine. My wife works for a private wine shop, does wine tastings, etc. She had heard of a particular wine that worked better than just any ‘ole liqueur because of the region. Get a wine that’s a 100%, or close to it, of the Pinotage grape from the Western cape of South Africa. One example vineyard is Barista. It’s not as esoteric as it sounds. Wine grapes (or any plant) will pick up from the environment (soil and air) things that are native to a region. That’s why the same grape can taste so different between different regions. Anyway, it helped me. It didn’t work forever, but it did give me a reprieve from the splitting headache and helped my mood a little more than other wine did. I will warn you, this is a rough wine. It’s not a fun drink. But for those of us used to Kratom tea, and toss and washing Kratom powder, it’s drinkable.
Other things that helped me with my particular problems were Soma (a script muscle relaxer) for my back pain, Aleve for the joint aches, and OTC sleep meds and NyQuil to help sleep (OTC sleep meds are the same thing that’s in Benadryl which is not in NyQuil so you’re not doubling up, but read the labels to be sure).
Being on the other side now I can tell you that it does end, and it feels good. Not only having my real personality back, but also knowing I’m not spending $500+ a month on Kratom! I can save that money, or use it on other things to help the real problems.
Hang in there! Remember that anything that does this to you when you stop taking it you don’t want in your body. You’re going to be surprised how much better and clearer you feel. It’s a few days out of your life. Maybe a week. Not the eternity it feels like.
YOU CAN DO IT!
2:23 am
November 20th, 2012
I am not a writer so I will get straight to it:
I started taking K on the weekends and it was great but expensive. Wanting more, I searched out a cheaper outlet to where I was taking a spoonful once a day with no adverse effects. Once again it the cost was adding up so I sourced out an even cheaper outlet. Right around that time a great relationship with a girl came to an end and to help cope I upped the dose to 1 spoon twice a day since I was getting more K for less dough. Then came 2 spoons twice a day and thats when it got me. I had heard people talking about w/d and never understood it because before this point i was BEING CAREFUL. I got reckless with it and it bit me in the ass. Here I am 3 years later on that same dose and wanting to kick it but never mustered enough ball to do it. I actually accidentally got off one time but screwed it up within days. I came down with a stomach flu one day and couldnt keep anything down so I knew I had to weather the storm. I laid in bed with terrible sweats, restlessness and extreme dehydration (and I mean extreme). To the point where I felt like I had to pee every 30 seconds but nothing would come out. Im sure my bladder looked like a vacuum seal bag at that point. 24 hours later I felt normal… and not the normal you get from dosing up after coming down. I felt human again. One who can function without an outside substance and it was a revelation. I didnt want to give up K completely though because it is still an amazing plant with many great benefits. I dosed up too much and too soon after and I was back to square one.
So here I am 3 years into use and wanting to quit. Through those years I have acquired some knowledge about the plant and its effects on the body. To make it easy I will bullet them;
-K uses your bodies water supply to activate so staying hydrated is CRUCIAL. Lack of water also leads to intestinal blockage. In order to maintain a clean bill of health, elimination is very important. Lots of water usually helps me combat w/d. That weak feeble feeling you get when coming down is from dehydration. I know because I have felt them same thing in the morning and since I started putting down 8-12 ounces of water before bed has killed that stone dead. Lack of water will cause headaches, achy bones and joint and intestinal blockage. This is EXTREMELY important. Drink more water!!! I can not stress it enough.
-Magnesium is a mineral that helps lower tolerance and increase potency. Raw cacao is extremely high in this mineral which also happens to affect the same receptors in your brain that is responsible for “love”. Other foods a high in it are starfruit and spinach.
-Tumeric is an herb that also increases potency. I saw it mentioned on a forum a while back and have forgotten the specifics of it. Im not sure what else it is good for but I take 3 capsules a day that I make myself because it also fights cancer better than chemo.
- I have noticed that weed is a good way to combat w/d. This varies from person to person because of preference. I do not drink since it is way more detrimental to your health so my preference is a green flower. It lowers w/d and lengthens the time frame in which w/d occur for me.
- Spicy foods such as Thai and Indian increase potency as well. This is not meant to encourage you to keep dosing and eat these foods. I say it so you can taper down with less K and still feel a slice of normalcy. Which leads me to my next point…
- I think tapering down is the best method. Cold turkey is hell and you have to plan out a week alone with no work or social life in order to deal with it without others seeing you as a junkie. If you are committed to quitting, you have to devise a schedule and measure out every dose consistently and stick with it. It comes down to: do you want full fledged hell slammed on you at once in intolerable doses or would you rather have moderate jabs be taken that isnt noticeable by anyone who hasnt been clued in?
- I also highly suggest to stay away from Rx’s. I am completely against that industry entirely since they are only concerned with creating customers and not cures. The industry survives on people staying sick. Thats a whole other can of worms though. The Rx industry also synthetically creates in a lab what already exists in nature since the law states that nature can not be patented, which equals no money for big pharma (also why weed is illegal). I suspect that Kratom is the plant that they based Oxy on which I why so many people find refuge in this plant.
- As with any ailment I believe that diet and exercise can fix almost anything. I have personally found that exercise has helped increase potency and decrease w/d symptoms. The body has immense abilities to heal itself and if it is running at optimal performance then that is even better for all aspects of your life. I try to eat right- organically and raw as much as possible and currently cutting out meat-, I do yoga and ride my bike. Combined they have done pretty well in more than one areas of my life.
Kratom is not a bad plant. I love it. It has helped me in more ways than you can imagine. It is my fault that I am where I am. Its not the plants fault. Anything can be addictive. There are people that cant stop shopping. Should we outlaw shopping? Probably not. In the end, it is the user. Caffeine is actually extremely addictive and its withdraws can KILL you. Moderation and awareness is key. Too much of a good thing is never a good thing. In the beginning I was taking it daily with no problems and occasionally I would take a day off just to lower my tolerance and the next day would be even better since less powder went further. I am just tired of being prisoner to planning out every move and making sure I have a little sack or some pills with me everywhere I go.
I planned to keep it short but there is a lot to say since it is a relatively unknown topic (paradox, I know). This is the first time I have opened up anywhere on the topic so I sincerely hope that someone can find refuge in my words and use what I have learned to its full potential and get on the right track.
Good luck!
5:39 pm
November 21st, 2012
I am on day 7 and I guess I’m kind of coming out of this fog……. but I’m super irritable and tired. I’ve been taking 6 of the gel caps from the local head shop for 1 year-since I quit Tramadol. This stuff is a soul stealer!
5:40 pm
November 21st, 2012
Also, so glad I found this-I don’t feel so alone.
6:10 pm
November 22nd, 2012
day 8-feeling worlds better than yesterday.
5:02 am
November 23rd, 2012
Hello everyone, and thank you for sharing your experiences w/ kratom.
I have used kratom for 3 years on and off. I never did it more then 2 days in a row. I mainly have used Bali,,,,but have tried them all.
The reason I started kratom was to get off of tramadol,,,the tramadol helped me to get of of oxy….
If used properly, and not abused,,,,this plant is the miracle plant.
It also has diminished my desire to drink. I never had a drinking problem, but I did enjoy trying differant beers.
My back ground,,I am 53. I’m a trucker, so I cant smoke weed.
I use kratom sometimes on the weekend to help w/ pain, and to feel nice.
I was addicted very badly to benzos for about 6 years. Detoxed twice from them. Took as many as 6 xanax bars a day,,,,
The benzo wd’s were way way worse then opiaie wd.
I never abused kratom, so never had wd’s.
You have to respect this plant, and also fear it. Be smart.
Rehydration is a MAJOR factor in any recovery. And as mentioned several times before, proper nutrition and excersize,,,,, stay busy.
Volenteer,etc. Hope this helps someone.
I’m a person with a very addictive past, but I will not ever let kratom control my life like I let xanax, klonopin, and valium did….
SELF DISCIPLINE
1:13 am
November 26th, 2012
I’m on day 7 off of K.
I was taking 5 pills in the am, and then another 5 around noon. I tapered down back to my 5 in the am…then 4 for a few days…then 3 for a few days…then zero.
The first day off i was very depressed…second day was better. I actually started to feel “normal” on day three.
I really do miss taking it. I’m trying to convince myself that if i can stay off for a while, then going back will not be a problem(because i know i can get off when i want) I use it for work, and it REALLY gets me thru. I encounter extremely stressful situations throughout the day, and K guides me thru:) I’m very irritable without it….SIGH…i really miss taking it. Has made me feel good knowing ive been off for a week now. I cant imagine what it must feel like to be addicted to nicotine(is this what it feels like???)
Reading everyones posts are really comforting:) Thanks to everyone!
12:24 pm
November 26th, 2012
I am on day 7 off of kratom after 2 years of heavy use. I have experience with other mu opiates so I can tell you that kratom is definitely addictive, just not as severe.
Most people coming to this blog are wondering about the withdrawl symptoms… I can tell you its not as bad as you may think. Obviously the first 3 days are going to depend on how long/much you’ve used and for me that was a lot. It did suck for me. But it was manageable despite what others have indicated. Nothing like a real opiate.
By day 5-6, you will feel normal and any remaining cravings or symptoms will be purely psychological. IMHO, these will never go away in a person with an addictive type of personality. You are the one who is responsible to manage this.
It can be done. Its not that hard. Your will power is the most important factor. The question is: How badly do you want it? If you want it bad enough, you can do it.
1:29 pm
November 27th, 2012
I was off for about 9 days and then I caved. As with smoking I will keep trying until I get it right ( I haven’t had a cigarette in 10 years). I think quitting smoking was easier because eventually every cigarette you smoke makes you feel awful-with Kratom you’re letting go of something that makes you feel better-it’s so hard.
3:12 am
November 29th, 2012
Staying busy, and getting yourself into that ‘mindset’ that you need to quit,,,, or take a break may help.
As it has been metioned numerous times,,,
Proper rehydration, nutrition, and exercise, are the keys to feeling, and getting better.
Also supportive people who have been there and have the knowledge can be, and is a blessing.
When I was addicted to Benzos, (by FAR thecworse addiction anyone can ever experience)..
The support groups that I found online saved my life.
Kratom is a miracle plant,,, its not the plants fault that people become addicted…
Addiction lerks around every corner.
Its up to that person, and his, or her will power,,,, and the desire to better ones self.
Be strong. Keep a positive attitude.
And take it one day at a time,,,
Sometimes one hour at a time.
Rehydrate, eat proper, exercuse, and stay positive and busy.
Thats how you beat any drud addiction.
My heart goes out to those who suffer.
Each day does get better.
Just keep a smile on your face and all will be fine.
7:42 am
December 2nd, 2012
Just wanted to keep with the trend and post what will likely be my last personal experience update.
I’m over a month since I dropped kratom and am pretty much baseline again. I sometimes feel RLS late at night but it’s of a minor severity that I find easy to ignore. I anticipate this will diminish completely soon given the current rate of other symptom progression.
That WD was no joke. I’ve had pneumonia before, and the fever-but-my-body-thinks-I’m-freezing sensation was the same. That lasted a full 8 days before weirdly terminating suddenly. Insomnia persisted for 14 days. Severe RLS lasted 3 weeks, along with various little reminder “hey, you’re going through withdrawal” symptoms like intermittent chills and sneezing. I experienced no psychological effects or depression but have never been prone to these so your mileage may vary.
I personally think tapers are a pipe dream. I don’t regret doing a jump off, and it’s a good reminder that I have the strength to do something like that. To each his own, but consider doing a CTRL-F on this page for “taper” and count how many people here actually did it successfully before you make a decision.
Also, if you’re considering it, don’t let the flood of dudes going “you guys are pathetic, kratom is a miracle drug, blah blah blah, I NEED it in my life (because I’m a fucking addict)” sway your thinking one way or the other. There are obviously a lot of addicts here who are afraid of seeing their pet CNS depressant scheduled, and that they would actually deign to scorn or attempt to persuade others is frankly pathetic. It was said here once before: you people are not on the level. Kratom is an opioid. There is nothing special about it that makes it “less addictive”, or some magic no-withdrawal wonder-herb.
7:04 pm
December 3rd, 2012
I’d just like to say that seeing all of comments here, and seeing how closely everyone’s experiences sounded to my own, convinced me to get serious about this. I’ve spent most of the last two years clinging to this stuff, and today marks day three since cutting myself loose.
I didn’t think this could possibly be, but today I’m actually starting to feel myself again, and I’m looking forward to celebrating my little sister’s birthday without needing to bring any with me or sneak off to slurp down any disgusting slop tonight.
I should add that I’ve tried stopping a few times, but I always left myself with too many safety nets and emergency supplies. I think it took reading these experiences and a long look in the mirror to finally do this.
Thanks everyone.
5:39 pm
December 4th, 2012
I kow-it’s funny how you lose sight of who you really are-and then, begin to actually notice stuff again.Way to go!!
5:14 am
December 5th, 2012
I became interested in Kratom after accidentally stumbling on an article about it on a news website that claimed that Kratom was the new “bath salts”. I remember reading about bath salts and seeing news reports about it on TV, and all of the harmful effects that it would have on a person so, of course, just out of curiosity I wanted to know what this Kratom was all about. After reading some articles about it, Kratom looked like a safe, natural plant that if used in moderation, could help people who were suffering from mild anxiety, depression, and physical pain.
Then I stumbled on this article and began reading the comments from people who were addicted to Kratom.
I must say, for those of you commenting on here — take responsibility for the fact that the plant was not the problem; YOU are the problem. YOU have all abused the plant, taking doses that far exceeded what is normally taken. A normal dosage would be 2-3 grams (about a teaspoon and a half); everyone here was taken well in excess of 20-25 grams per day! And some of you were taking 60-100 grams per day!?! That’s insane! And then you all go to blame the drug instead of blaming yourselves?!?
Because of drug abusers like all of you and the negativity that you put on Kratom, the people who use Kratom RESPONSIBLY and ETHICALLY are therefore lumped in to the same group as all of you and are seen as drug abusers as well. Is that fair? Absolutely not. And because of all of your stupidity, this helpful drug is on the verge of being public enemy number one.
Take responsibility for what you have done. Kratom helped all of you beat your addictions to the more harmful chemical drugs (i.e. Vicodin, Heroin, etc.) that you were taking and then you all went around and senselessly abused the same drug that helped you. Shame on all of you.
Oh, and one more thing: I want everyone to know that I have never tried Kratom. I have only read about it and its benefits. The good far outweighs the bad but of course, because of the bad, everyone loses.
8:14 pm
December 6th, 2012
Well here I am again W\D’S I managed to make it 7 days last time…Then I managed to talk myself in to doing it again “”WHAT”"!!!!I Don’t know why but I do know I got on it AGAIN!!! I wasn’t really thinking I would post here just feel like a big let down..I’m 6 days without doing any still feel kinda lost almost like something was taken from me…The biggest bother is this total tiredness all the time will this ever end I NEED ENERGY!!!! This is it I’m done forever I keep telling myself this even the first time I gave it up …I would like to hear things like tomorrow you’ll be back to your old self… It’s been tomorrow for a few days now and I still feel like crap…I decided to try the loperamide I took 13 2mg tablets about 40 minutes ago… I have read that it helps but will report what happens…To all posters that has successfully stopped… Let me know how you feel today I want to hear it or in this case read it… I think it would help me and others kick this stuff… I want freedom… Thanks to you all love this blog…
10:55 pm
December 8th, 2012
Geoff Cabot you sure are angry about something you claim to have never tried. I don’t know where you get your info but I certainly have never taken the dose you that you accuse everyone on this forum of taking. Of course we know it’s not the plant’s fault.
1:00 am
December 9th, 2012
Thank you Geoff Cabot for putting that out there.
It is a FACT that the people on here are addicted to Kratom because they were abusing it. Consuming way more then is required, and using it everyday. people being irresponsible is the problem here.
NB you are apparently one of those people. blaming the plant for your choice to over use and abuse it.
Kratom is active at LOW doses, and DOES NOT HAVE TO BE USED EVERYDAY!!! using it everyday at the high doses that people have used it at is just plain ignorant. GET EDUCATED ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE PUTTING INTO YOUR BODY!!
Kratom is a MIRACLE PLANT! just do your research and read about how many opiate addicts, and alcoholics it has helped.
NB you are apparently not a very intelligent person, and because of ignorant uneducated weak addicts like you this plant will be made illegal in a matter of time.
Yes I have an addictive personality, yes I was addicted to benzos that my Dr. kept perscribing at higher doses.
But educating myself about Kratom, and realizing that it is an addictive plant. I learned to RESPECT KRATOM! and FEAR IT as well.
I have self discipline, and realize that if I use this plant, and not ABUSE it as every addict on here has,,, then I will be perfectly fine.
As I said in my first post, I have used Kratom on and off for 3 years without any problems what so ever. I have gone 2, 3 even 4 months without using it at all. Never needing it, or freaking out because I don’t have it….. Because I was smart enough NOT TO ABUSE IT.
Kratom has diminished any desire for me to drink, or take any pills.
I do have an occasional beer or two when I choose not to USE Kratom.
I have lost almost all of my body fat. I have wash board abs at the age of 53. I am in excellent health. I am not on any medication. I have perfect blood pressure. I am a professional truck driver who never, never uses Kratom on my on duty time.
An addict is an addict is an addict…. Once Kratom is illegal the addicts will find something else to abuse…
It’s time for all of you ADDICTS to take resposibility for your uneducated ignorance,,,, and quit blaming KRATOM THE MIRACLE PANT
for the decision that you have made to ABUSE this plant. USING AN AMOUNT OVER 5 grams, FOR ONE DOSE IS JUST PLAIN ADDICTIVE STUPIDITY!! kratom is active between 2 – 5 grams depending on the strain,,, 100 grams a day?… REALLY!! that is just being stupid,,,
Sorry,,,, but that’s a fact
Go ahead and flame me all you want. I am an educated healthy, adult man who takes the responsibilty for what I consume in the proper manner, in the proper doses, at the proper time.
My heart goes out to the weak, sick, uneducated, ignorant addicted people. I will keep you all in my prayers.
I can say this in closing that if Kratom was made illegal tomorrow that I would NOT be curled up on my bed in a fetus position in cold sweats.
2:08 am
December 9th, 2012
NB I had to read your sarcastic post one more time to be sure I covered everything.
I am not trying to persuade anyone into using Kratom. It is their choice.
I am a believer that ALL PLANTS SHOULD BE LEGAL! and that people should be educated about these plants.
Nobody tied you down and spoon fed you Kratom. Only you can blame YOURSELF! Kratom didn’t climb in your mouth by itsself. You apparently did not read the label.
This plant has been proven by psychologist and psychotherapist to be a very helpful plant to people who use it properly and responsibly.
Lets make caffeine illegal too,,,,, Kratom is in the same family.
Do your research. Quit blaming Kratom for the choices that you, and you alone chose to do to yourself.
As Geoff Cabot mentioned above in his post. It is a FACT that the good out weights the bad when it comes to Kratom,,,,
the ones who abuse a plant that is known to be addictive is only digging their own grave.
1:19 pm
December 10th, 2012
This post is in response to the post by Geoff Cabot. Not everyone who started taking Kratom took it to escape reality, get high, or wean off another drug. Please read all of the posts before lumping everyone here together. There are many people who deal with chronic pain from spinal injuries, fibromyalgia, MS and other neurological disorders. Living with chronic pain that never goes away whether you’re sitting, standing, working or resting will result in sleep deprivation, mood swings, inability to work due to the constant distraction, relationship problems, etc. People who deal with this for years are highly susceptible to anything that will make the pain go away. Unfortunately most things that tackle neurological pain are also addictive (including prescription medication). There is a reason for that, and that reason also responds to who is responsible for the addiction. In order to tackle neurological pain a medication (natural or otherwise) must work on the nervous system to block the sensation of pain. Since a drug (currently) can’t fix the degradation of the myelin sheath on nerves of the body, or repair a spinal injury, the only recourse in our wonderful “modern” medicine is simply to deal with the symptoms. Another drawback to modern medicine is we have yet to figure out how to target medication. So any medication, no matter how specialized in a lab, is going to be responded to by many parts of the brain. This leads us to what they do in our brain. There are several different techniques in manipulating brain chemistry to alter various aspects of the human experience (from blocking pain perception to mood or even personality alteration). Most of them break down into two general categories: Either inhibiting the uptake of a neurotransmitter, or increasing the uptake of a neurotransmitter (flooding the synapse). Pain relievers work in the former sense. They inhibit uptake of certain neurotransmitters thus slowing the response of those neurons. That’s why medication that works for anxiety also works as a pain reliever. A prime example is the FDA’s recent acceptance of Cymbalta as a pain reliever which was originally branded an anti-depressant/anxiety medication. The reason there is addiction and withdrawal to these medications is because the brain becomes accustomed to having these medications do its job for it. For instance an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) binds to the uptake receptors in the axon keeping it from receiving the serotonin that’s released into the synapse. What happens when the drug is withdrawn is that inhibitor is no longer present, and the brain has to revert to a previous state of functioning. This results in sometimes terrible withdrawal symptoms (often mimicking pre-drug use state or worsened state) which drives the user to wanting more of the drug to make the symptoms go away. The user at this point is no more responsible for the addiction to Kratom than they would be to Oxycodone. It’s a physical addiction which means it’s modified the actual function of the brain. This is in contrast to behavioral addiction, such as addiction to gambling, which acts on the body’s natural responses to a situation which the person enjoys and wants repeated. One thing that both types of addiction have in common is that the person becomes accustomed to the response and begins to require a higher dose (or more risk) to maintain the same affect (positive or otherwise). That gets to the dosage point you made. Dosage will rise over time to maintain the same usefulness of the drug. This is true for long term use of prescription medication as well. The body is good at adapting, and when modifying its functionality one is fighting that adaptation. Over time dosage can get quite high. Regarding Kratom specifically (or any herbal product) dosage is extremely relative. In its natural state there is no regulation of the amount active alkaloid in the plant so some may require higher amounts to achieve the same result. There’s also extracts which attempt to isolate the active alkaloids in the plants. All extracts are different thus a different dosage would be found depending on which is being used.
Remember that most prescription medications come from observing the effects of natural herbal remedies. Valerian and valium, opium and morphine, white willow bark and Aspirin, etc. From there they begin to alter which alkaloid is focused on, and the strength of it. So they end up with Percocet as a lighter version of morphine, etc. Kratom is simply another version of Opium, or any other of a number of similar plants. It acts on the nervous system (no matter the amount taken) thus altering brain function which results in the aforementioned chemical addiction and related issues.
So your point on who’s responsible for the addiction only goes so far, and is not all inclusive. Yes, some people do have addictive personalities and simply wish to live “high” all the time to get through life. Like alcoholics, most people are not aware they have this disorder until they take their first pill after a surgery or accident (or after their first few drinks in the case of alcohol). Some suffer from depression, anxiety or other issues which leads them to seek something to make it go away without seeking professional help. Those dealing with chronic pain are typically a combination of the two. A doctor prescribes an opiate for the pain, the person sees what it’s like to live without pain, the person continues use to stay out of pain which results in the chemical addiction worsening the need for the drug. It’s a vicious cycle that feeds on itself, and is quickly taken out of the person’s full control. Like driving towards a cliff: If the person waits too long to jump out of the car they will go over whether they decide to jump out or not.
This leads to your point about Kratom being safe if used responsibly and ethically. That flat out isn’t possible because of the way the plant works. Even if only taken recreationally the person will, over time, seek a greater response to the drug. If one amount feels so good, how good would more feel? Then the chemical addiction takes hold and they begin to feel so bad without it they start taking it daily, and on it goes. It’s a very natural, albeit harmful, response that is well documented in the world of pharmacology. Frankly, people who believe they have a full grasp on what’s going on and believe they can control it are often the first people to fall off the cliff. They don’t have a full understanding of what’s actually going on in their brain with the drug. They have an ideological, high level understanding and think it will never happen to them. To those people I say never try anything. Ever. The odds are not in your favor. On a brief side note this is why opponents to legalizing marijuana call it a gateway drug. Is weed chemically addictive? Most studies have shown it is not which medically makes it safer than even Kratom. It can be behaviorally addictive in that it mellows the person out, and especially for teens going through puberty and all the crap they deal with in school, it’s very enticing. However, it’s possible for the person to travel down the logical path if weed helps this much how much more would Vicadin, Oxycodone, cocain, etc. etc. Then they wind up chemically addicted, and away they go. Does everyone who smokes weed travel that path? Absolutely not. But it’s possible. That’s why both sides can form a cogent argument.
Lastly, regarding your final statement of “The good far outweighs the bad but of course, because of the bad, everyone loses.” Based on all of the well documented, medical evidence provided in this post (feel free to research on your own on reputable sites) that statement is simply false. The same argument could be made for opium. It was used for many years as a pain reliever. It did good for those going through surgery, having a limb amputated, etc. It also led to opium dens, and a still burgeoning billion dollar drug industry.
Based on the falseness of many of the comments, the fact the poster admits he’s never taken Kratom, the needless negative and accusatory tone, and the fact that this forum is for people actually going through chemical withdrawal I recommend his post be pulled. This is a free country with freedom of speech. The poster is welcome to his opinion, but this is not the proper forum for him to use as his bully pulpit.
6:23 am
December 11th, 2012
Kratom is definitly addictive, everyone here is proof of that.
Coffee is addictive too,,, should that be illegal.
Self discipline is what is lacking in ALL addicts.
As I honestly stasted several times before. I have used Kratom responsibly, with respect and fear for this plant. I NEVER! EVER USE IT MOR THEN TWO DAYS IN A ROW!!!! then I take a break for several days,, sometimes weeks,, and even months.
For 3 years,, so far,,, without any problem what so ever.
There are thousands, and thousands of people who use Kratom responsibly.
Steve you are extremely intelligent,,,, but so am I my friend.
Addiction does not discriminate,,, we all know that.
I was addicted to benzos very, very, badly,,, had to detox twice.
I wad addicted to opiates because of surgery, and the amount I was perscribed. I hate opiates,,,,I hate the dreams I had, the constipation, and the unavoidable addiction after using them for months and months.
Yes there are many people on this blog that used Kratom to help to fight cronic pain, depression, anxiety etc.
I’m sorry they are addicted.
It is not Kratoms fault though,,, and that is what rubs me wrong.
Everyone here chose to consume it everyday.
I NEVER CONSUME IT EVERYDAY!!!! 2 days a week,,, three at the most.
If I consumed it everyday,,,,I would most likely be addicted.
I deal with my cronic pain. Severe neck, and back injuries, and a wrist that had to be reattached to my arm.
The days I don’t use Kratom I take Aleve. It helps,,, but I am still in pain.
Kratom helps alleviate my pain for those 2 days in a row thatI use it,,, and keeps helping the third day when I don’t use it….If I choose to use it a third day in 1 week,, I still take a break for a few days.
Being a trucker,,, I am discipline enough to never use it when on the clock.
Not everyone who uses this leaf from a tree is addicted.
It is a plant,,, not a chemical,,, or a plant that is made into a man made pharmacuetical,,, it is all natural.
The extracts, and tinctures should not be sold,,,, but the raw leaf should be left alone as all plants on this earth that was put here to be used as medicine properly,,, and not over used or abused.
I always use the same amount,,,never increase my dose.
It is still effective after using it responsibly for 3 years.
Discipline, self respect, respect and fear for the plant, and educating ones self is the key to NOT becoming addicted.
This plants healing properties are 3 alkaloids that exist,,, the most effective one for pain being 7 hydroxymitragynine should never be altered, or refined.
It should be used in the proper way,,taking days off at a time,,, substituting it with over the counter medication for pain,,, and deal with the pain during those days that we should not use Kratom.
If peopke would do this,,, nobody would get addicted. Unfortunatly people can’t do this.
So yes Kratom will sooner or later be illegal,,, or regulated.
Please excuse any typos, grammer, or misspelled words as there is no way to edit post here once they are submitted,,, and my Galaxy touch pad and me don’t get along.
I pray those who suffer can be healed…sorry if you think I’m an ass.
But freedom of speech,,,and freedom of all living plants should not be a crime.
This world has enough hate and discrimination as it is.
The addicts here who got addicted to Kratom because you wanted to get high,,,sorry it happen,,,but it’s your fault,,,
Those who got addicted because they used it to battle illness,,,sorry but you should have gotten educated before you jumped in with both feet…you all are in my prayers
2:36 pm
December 11th, 2012
@Bill- I’m finally back, and since you are interested in my progress…. or lack thereof, I figure I’ll fill you in. Since my last post I screwed up pretty bad, and hopped back on the Suboxone because as soon as I jumped off the Kratom all of my Sub PAWS came back. So I continued on with the subs at about 2mgs 2x a day. I cut that down to 2mg 1x a day, and then down to about 1-1.5 mg a day. 8 days ago I jumped off the Subs and got some more Kratom. I’ve been using about 15 grams a day for the last 8 days. I have about 7 grams left and I really don’t want to get/use anymore Kratom. I feel like I’ve been using opiates for so long that I don’t know how to function without it. I don’t know if it’s a lack of character that I have, or what is going on. But the thought of having to go through the WD’s is terrifying to me. I’ve gone through WD’s more times than I can ever count, and each time is worse than the last. I want to be clean so bad, but it seems so far out of reach at this point. The crippling depression, body aches, and complete lack of energy seem like it’s more than I can take again. I know I’m just on here complaining and feeling sorry for myself, but that’s how I feel at this point.
12:19 am
December 12th, 2012
Addiction is a disease,, addiction SUCKS!! Steve you can beat this. You have to get into a specific mind set. hydration is very, very important to flush toxins from your body. Proper nutrition. I myself use a mediteranian diet. Excersise gets your endorphines flowing, and also rids your body of toxins, Support groups help TONS.
Tapering Kratom is possible with capsules. STAY AWAY! AND OFF OF SUBS!! SUBS AND METHEDONE ARE WAY, WAY WORSE FOR YOU, AND HARDER TO WD FROM!
You, and all that suffer from the DISEASE of addiction are in my prayers everyday. GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU
1:56 am
December 12th, 2012
This is in response to Pete’s last post. I don’t think anybody here would deny that the addiction to Kratom, or anything for that matter, didn’t begin with a choice. If you read my original post here, I looked up everything I could on Kratom for a couple months before I ever bought my first leaf. At the time there was little to no information on withdrawal, addiction or the opiate like effects of Kratom. What information there was in that regard was anecdotal at best. For instance, it was mentioned that long term native users often experienced skin discoloration. That never happened to me, and probably not to anyone here. In all likelihood it was a reaction to the chlorophyll in the raw leaves they were chewing. I started taking it in good conscience not thinking it was any more physically addictive than marijuana (which most studies show is not physically addictive).
My case probably wasn’t the norm. Most people probably got into it either looking to get off an opiate, or looking for a legal alternative. In either of those cases the user had already done the damage, were already physically addicted to a foreign substance, and so were primed to over use Kratom as well.
I’m not a proponent of shirking personal responsibility. For instance, I think the lawsuits against the tobacco companies were ludicrous. They made the personal choice to go against nature and intentionally suck down smoke into their lungs. I don’t care how many cool dudes and naked girls you show doing it, I’m not going to be persuaded. That was their personal choice. The tobacco companies wouldn’t exist if there weren’t people gullible enough to get suckered into their product. Yes, there are folks out there for whom life sucks, and they seek substances to escape. They need professional help. For the vast majority of people hooked on opiates, benzos, Kratom, etc. I first place blame on the medical establishment. In a lot of cases there was an initial need for the person to be prescribed a medication for pain. Unfortunately they don’t regulate it well enough. In fact there’s very little federal regulation around the prescribing of regulated medication. Some offices require a “pain contract,” while others have no problem giving enough refills on it for 3-6 months with no contract. Most people are not aware of the power of physical addiction. They don’t realize that the side effects of stopping the medication are not their symptoms returning, but rather withdrawal which will end in time. I personally have never had a doctor talk to me about weaning off of a medication because of withdrawal. I’m not saying doctors don’t, but it doesn’t seem to be common practice. It’s typically whatever gets the patient out of the office in <15 minutes (the insurance companies are billed in 15 minute increments), and keeps the patient happy.
There are plenty of regulated and non-regulated items that are physically addictive such as caffeine, alcohol and nicotine. The reason why some are regulated more heavily than others is due to the severity of addiction and withdrawal, and the potential danger to the individual and others. Even though alcohol is heavily regulated there are still thousands of deaths due to it. Why? Because everyone is different. You might be fine, and able to control your use forever, but can you guarantee the same for the guy in the car next to you? I enjoy a drink every so often. I’m proud to say I’ve never been drunk my whole life. Does that mean I think alcohol shouldn’t be regulated because I can control it? Hell, no!! I’m more concerned about all the other dumbasses on the road. You yourself pointed out that as a truck driver you don’t drive when you’ve taken Kratom (thank you for that). How about the trucker next to you? Or the driver of the car riding your bumper? In a perfect world everything could be perfectly regulated, and every user would use responsibly. That’s not reality. A few years ago there was a guy who got into a fight at a pub in my town. The cops told the pub owner (who I know) that the guy was going around and loosening the Freon connectors on people’s home A/C systems and huffing it. That’s reality. People who are responsible, and don’t have other underlying psychological conditions, have a tendency to view regulation as the “man” harshing their mellow. If it wasn’t for regulation there would be a lot more deaths either from unintentional overdosing (hydrocodone and oxycodone contain acetaminophen which destroys their liver over time), to suicide and manslaughter.
So whether someone becomes addicted to something (Kratom or otherwise) due to their own psychological weakness, lax use by medical practitioners, or conscientious users who just go too far there does come a point where it’s a physical addiction with nasty withdrawal symptoms. However they got to that point is irrelevant to this forum. This forum is dedicated to those trying to do the right thing, on their own, and break that addiction. Nasty posts deriding them for ever having gotten to that point are not helpful. People on this forum know they’re addicted. They know it was a mistake. They know they’re suffering now for their mistake, and they’re looking for help. To do anything but applaud their choice and effort is counterproductive, and in some cases harmful, to those going through it.
So to people like Geoff and Pete I wish you well. I hope that you can continue to control either not using at all (like Geoff), or control your personal use. It’s great if you can do that. Kratom is a great medicinal plant. Please keep in mind that there are many reasons for someone to become physically addicted to a substance over a long period of time, and often with no intention of doing so. And whatever the path taken, getting off the path leads to a hard road that needs helpful companionship. Not someone jabbing them in the ribs with a stick and calling them a dumbass for going the wrong way.
5:47 pm
January 2nd, 2013
I’ve been a Kratom addict for 2.5 years now and I finally found the time to quit.
I started taking Kratom because I have an addictive personality and I was drinking way too much.
It got so bad that I was getting into physical fights with my boss and I was in a constant state of anxiety and depression.
Then I discovered Kratom.
Now I’m not gonna be all too hard on this stuff because I truly believe that it saved me from alcohol destruction, but it does have it dark side.
Until 6 days ago I was taking between 25-35 grams of green malay daily, I found that it would help me control my emotions and keep me working hard, but there was just something weird about my life that I could put my finger on until a few months ago.
I find that Kratom is probably 60% good 40% bad for me at least.
The good parts everyone seems to know about, it the bad parts that people overlook probably on purpose, I know I ignored it.
I knew I was taking too much when my memory started to become really bad.
I’ve always been a reasonably intelligent person, but I seemed to be forgetting more and more things and I wasn’t able to follow conversations or instructions at work, coz I’d just forget what the boss was telling me before she’d even finished the sentence.
This was becoming quite alarming but I found that if I missed one of my between 4-5 doses per day, my brain fog would clear and I’d get a great burst of clarity and well I suppose intelligence??
But at the back of my mind the fear of the WD’s was always there and the knowledge that I’d need at least 3 weeks off work to get off the stuff.
One of the worst aspects of the addiction is that you start looking at life through a porthole, you miss around 60-70% of what’s going on around you because you can’t concentrate and what’s more, you don’t care.
I used to be a very energetic and funny person before, but under Kratom I just went with the flow , ate, drank, worked, slept and that was it, I stopped socialising coz I didn’t need to and didn’t care really.
Kratom really steals your soul away and leaves you a hollow shadow of yourself.
So now I’m Kratom free.
I took my last dose 7 days ago.
I did taper a bit, but I was just so excited to be returning to the real world that I rushed a bit, plus I didn’t want to be WDing during Christmas.
The first night wasn’t too bad although the old restless legs kicked in, but I’m used to dealing with that and I just force myself to lie still, even when it’s driving me literally mad, I knew it wouldn’t last forever.
Then over the next 4 days I descended into the ‘twilight zone’.
I couldn’t sleep, eat, sit, I could shit however and that’s something I’ve not been really able to do freely do for a couple of years (constipation).
The nastiest part is the fatigue, which is so all encompassing that it makes doing anything difficult, even standing takes a great amount of planning and effort, so much so that I’d prefer to just lie there.
I’d sweat and be hot and cold at the same time, I’d sneeze uncontrollably, I’ve not had too much depression, probably because I know I’m coming out the other side of WD’s now and that’s such a cheerful thought that it’s holding back the depression.
Oh, I did have a episode of melancholy on the second day,which made me tearful and I’d cry at the drop of a hat, even at tv commercials lol?? wtf??
Now I’m on day 7 and I’m getting alot better.
I wouldn’t say I’m over it yet though, I’m still very fatigued and achy and I’m absolutely freezing cold all the time, which is the worst part atm.
I’m lucky in a way though, I had just over 3 weeks holiday saved from work, which I solely intended to use to kick Kratom.
It’s not easy to do, but it’s doable and I’m not gonna give up, I want my life back again.
As I said before, the majority of what Kratom has to offer is good, but if you’re an idiot like me and kid yourself it won’t happen to you, you won’t get addicted, then you’re fooling yourself badly.
By all means try this stuff, but just try to follow the experiences of others and don’t over do it.
You’ll have to pay the piper back some day.
3:06 am
January 4th, 2013
I was glad to have found this site. I am currently suffering. It helps to see others here – not because you’ve suffered but that I am not alone. I quit cold turkey on 1-1-2013. Today is day 3. The suffering only strengthens my will to quit because I can not imagine going through this EVER again.
I quit Kratom a couple of years ago and recall having some serious withdrawals that only lasted 3 or 4 days at that time but I was drinking Indo Leaf tea and some extracts. I went back to it about 8 months ago and it always starts out as a nice relaxant but turns into being a slave to the plant – for me. I have spent 8k in 2012 on nothing but extracts and with the tolerance going up … I couldn’t do without it; first thing in the morning, 3 at work, another 2 or so at home later. I am currently depressed and at times very despondent and lost feeling. I still have to perform on my job as well. This is between me and God. I have a co-worker that helped me out with a couple of benzos and at night a little bud to help sleep. I wake up several times throughout the night with PAWs, crawling leg, achy bones; I get confortable for maybe 2 minutes in bed and have to switch positions … constantly moving about in the bed. I will get up in the middle of the night and take a melatonin come back to bed and toss and turn until I fall out. Hot shower in the morning really helps …. and sipping on coffee has been a plus for me. My habit has been a secret … it breaks my heart. I am making things right now …. for the most important things in my life: my God, my wife, kids and of course me. I wish all of you the best of luck getting off of it.
5:17 pm
January 4th, 2013
I have been trying to get off this stuff for a while-it is so difficult.At 48-72 hours I give up because I just can’t function. What a nightmare.
5:38 pm
January 4th, 2013
Hey JR.
You haven’t done anything wrong you know, you haven’t hurt anyone else, you may have cocked you life up a bit, but you’ll be normal again soon.
Your memory will some back, your mood will regulate to neutral (I’m on day 9 now I think of WD’s and I’m feeling almost back to my old self.
There is a little bit of melancholy and boredom and I’m still very tired all the time, but I can feel the old systems re-booting.
It’s sort of interesting to experience too, it’s amazing how much you forget about the time before Kratom, just how much more alive you felt.
I wouldn’t say i’m completely over it yet, but I’m about 85% mended physically and 70% mentally, I’m starting to properly look forward to stuff now, even washing and mucking out the animals, whereas before I’d leave it and leave it and then get into trouble coz I’d think, “it’s not that important” or “it’ll wait”.
I’m still having issues with RLS but it lessens every night.
I went out on my motorbike today and I found I could actually ride the thing fast again, when I was on Krat I kept blaming the bike for not steering well, or that the gear change was horrible, now I realise it was me that was off, not the bike.
Mate, it is so worth you getting off this stuff, I feel sorry for you that you have to work, I don’t think I could have got through this had I had to work as well.
Can’t you take some time off with “the winter vomiting bug”, that’s what I’ve been telling everyone?
Look,ifyou wanna talk to a bloke who’s going through exactly the same shit as you,then you can skype me if you like? drobium771
7:45 pm
January 4th, 2013
This will be my last reply and I wish all of you the best of luck. Drobium said some things that are very similar with me. I started taking Kratom because of my alcohol use or misuse. I was a binge drinker and it was common for me to go months without drinking only to reward myself after a good weeks work or what have you. Sometimes the binges could last up to 4 days and when I would come to, it wasn’t uncommon to find a thousand dollars missing from my account or my girlfriend wouldn’t be around anymore. I have to add that I drank alcohol to combat anxiety.
Then I found kratom. I have to admit in the beginning I took more than required fueling the fire that gives it a bad name. I quit numerous times. The last time I quit I did it with a very regimented month long taper and it was a piece of cake. But in fact the first day I was without kratom, the same familiar symptoms came back from before I even knew what kratom was. The same chest caving anxiety and worst of all the urge to drink. The two years I had been taking kratom I had not had the urge to drink once. And because of that my life had improved immensely. I had my girlfriend back, I had my career back, I had my life back. But then there was that urge to drink, lingering around saying I’m here to take that all away from you now.
So I had a choice. What if I used kratom as if it were my medication which is exactly what nature intended it to be and not to be abused. In my mind I thought I don’t need to take any anxiety meds which IMO is worse than kratom. So I swore off extracts and started taking a very small dose, so small it’s not even worth mentioning. I don’t even get the euphoric effects but I never have the anxiety and I never have the urge to drink. And I NEVER go over my self prescribed dose.
So there it is, sure it’s an existence I would rather not have but the good overwhelmingly out weighs the bad and I’m not ever going back to that life and if this is what I have to do to prevent me from going there then so be it, because its the only thing that has ever worked. Like I said in the beginning I wish all of you the best of luck. It’s not fun but I know you’ll get to that inner peace we all once enjoyed. Thanks.
11:49 pm
January 5th, 2013
Thanks Drobium … it means a lot to me that you would offer to chat with me on Skype. I don’t have an account – but might create one so that we can chat.
Today is day 5 for me. I must say that I am feeling better physically but the mental aspect is not so good. I find myself crying from time to time, but at least I can keep it private – as I said before – between God and I. I am committed to staying off so at least that is not a concern for me. I drive right past the K supply shop twice a day. What drives me is the pain that I have felt getting over it and I have a high threshold for pain. I have done it cold turkey after being on extracts for 10 months.
I don’t want to convey that this plant is evil …. or needs to be scheduled; it has wonderful effects that have helped a lot of people with other additions and pain. One just has to understand what they’re getting into and to be careful. The entire reason why I got on it was due to depression and it helped – but for me personally it didn’t resolve anything – it simply caused me to not care as much about the reason why I was in the state to begin with. Now, however, I am facing all of it head – on with the hope that over time my mental faculties come back.
Jennifer, I pray that you can lick it. I sense your struggle and completely sympathize with you. You can do it!
Lastly it has helped me immensely to have found this board online…. just knowing that we’re not alone while going through this.
3:05 pm
January 8th, 2013
The only way to use kratom responsibly for depression or anxiety (as a legitimate medicine) is to limit yourself staunchly. If you find yourself escalating, using more, more, you have to cut back. If you take above 10g a day, even of plain leaf, you will begin to feel the w/d from it. Keep your usage low, only use plain leaf, and you avoid the bad stuff. “Less is more” with kratom. Too much and it’s benefits escape you completely. Though it may help you in small amounts, the lesson it inevitably teaches you is one of self-discipline. Don’t depend on it utterly. Take breaks. NEVER use extracts or enhanced products, NEVER. It’s w/d effects are a mirror. Only use this herb if you have this capacity. Otherwise you’re going to end up chasing your own happiness.
10:02 pm
January 8th, 2013
Well it’s been 2 weeks since I quit and I’m so bloody alive, I can’t begin to describe how much more alive I feel.
My social life has gone through the roof and I’m finding that I want to go out more and more.
Today I went down to visit a mate in Oxford on a whim on my motorbike.
We had a great time and when I left, it rained all the way back, but I didn’t mind, it seemed to re-affirm my connection to the real world.
Everything seems to vivid and fresh and clean now, I’m all excited even as I type.
I still have some nagging symptoms of WD’s, I wake up feeling down for around 30 minutes and also cold, but it soon wears off.
I’m still having trouble with restless legs and it’s enough to keep me awake for 1/3rd of the night, but it’s lessening every day now.
Oh, I didn’t mention before that I had alot of toilet trouble, I found it very difficult to control the release of my bladder whilst on Kratom and sometimes it wouldn’t happen at all, which would cause me anxiety which in turn would make my bladder lock up even more.
It got so bad at one point that I’d avoid trying to go to the toilet socially and plan my times around how long I could hold my bladder??? I’m such a twat!
But now I can go to the toilet as free as anything.
I know that sounds weird but I found that Kratom kept me so distracted from the process of having a wee that I’d not be able to do it coz I kept getting distracted by stuff.
Such a weird , weird thing?
There are some bad points, but that says more of me than of Kratom.
I’ve upped my alcohol intake by around 1/3, which is no where near as bad as before, but I’ve noticed it and it worries me :-/
I don’t want to f*ck this up again and go back to drinking, that was the whole point of Kratom in the first place.
I just need more will power, but I know I’m pretty weak willed when it comes to abuse.
I just feel so damn good atm, I don’t know whether it’s all my subdued dopamine cells firing back into life, but I feel brilliant.
After last week’s weird melancholy and lack of sleep, I never believed I COULD ever feel like this again without drugs??
I do feel a bit anxious that it may be some sort of over activation of parts of my brain that had been shut down for so long, and that it may go and I be left in depression again, why am I so nervous?? will this last?? I need it to.
I want you guys to know that there IS the other side of the WD’s and it’s amazing, it’s like a whole new drug lol .
Please please please don’t give in to it, you’ll feel so low you could slit your wrists, you’ll be knackered, you’ll hate your family and friends, you’ll think it’ll never end, but it will… I absolutely promise you.
Don’t give up
1:22 pm
January 11th, 2013
I do find it deeply offensive that people should judge some addicts by some sort of blurred moral superiority.
I didn’t choose to become addicted, it just creeps up on you, you don’t even realise.
What’s more, no-one knows about my addiction except you guys and I’ve not asked for any help whatsoever to get off the stuff, I did it completely alone.
It’s been really difficult at times, but now it’s done and apart from lingering tiredness and some weird sleep patterns, I’m back to normal now and functioning well.
How can people be so critical about what is nothing more or less than a mistake? (addiction)
If you fell over in the street because you weren’t looking where you were going and broke your leg, which then took months to fix and get back to work, no-one would say a thing.
But if you suffer from anxiety or depression, pain and you don’t want to go down the prescription route because of the extreme addiction and WD’s potential, suddenly you are the most evil person on Earth??
Sometimes, shit like this happens and it’s usually the person who’s made the mistake that has to sort it out.
It’s all very well saying that “I’m able to control myself” and “I’m able to regulate my intake”, but there are over 6 billion people on this planet and you are a rarity.
Now, I shall do my best to stay away from temptation, but I think I’ve paid a pretty high price both financially and mentally/physically, so why should I have to put up with public hostility and prejudice?
Now I’m gonna get on with my job of helping people who’ve fallen into this pit and that is what this thread is all about.
1:11 am
January 12th, 2013
Today is day 11 for me. I feel fantastic!! I am so happy that I licked it. Honestly, I didn’t start feeling ok until day 7 – so I do feel fortunate as I have read that it took longer for others. It was 5 days of hell. The hell actually drove me all the more to stay off … because I didn’t want to EVER have to go through it again. I couldn’t sleep enough for that week… but didn’t miss a beat with my life. I had to continue to go to work and function. My addiction to Kratom went much deeper than some may imagine. I was doing it secretly and the effects of it caused me to want to isolate myself (I still want to do that … so I know that my mind is not back 100%) …. so my loved ones must have noticed that I had grown “colder” than I had already been towards them. I began to “need” to take the extracts just to co-exist with them. So I was degrading them by doing that. I also lost any self respect and life at times didn’t even seem worth living. I didn’t want to be home, or work. The thought of getting off the K terrified me. 5 days ago I started P90x (exercise program) and I feel great already. Every day that passes, I feel my mind coming back all the more.
I know that this is getting pretty personal and is almost off topic on withdrawal. I just hope that maybe it helps some one.
I BEAT IT!!
12:35 pm
January 12th, 2013
@ JR
I’m really really glad for you dude.
It’s so weird how fresh and in focus everything looks isn’t it?
You can see and take things in again and I bet you feel more intelligent than you did on Kratom? it’s just so much easier to think without it.
Your need for socialising should start to come back over the next couple of days and that’s when you really know you’re over it.
Really, really pleased for you matey
2:05 pm
January 12th, 2013
I am still having a really hard time with this. I shudder to think how much worse off I’d be if I had delved into the world of extracts. I have really bad back problems that are completely relieved with kratom-but return 10 fold within hours of quitting.
9:03 pm
January 14th, 2013
@Jennifer
It’s not your back matey, honest.
Everything hurts like hell after quitting Kratom, hopefully it should ease over the next few days.
Don’t give it a chance to convince you to start it again, you’re doing really well, the worst is gonna be over over the next couple of days.
Tiredness lasts rather a long time, well it has with me, I’m 20 days off the stuff now and I’m still running on sort of half power??
I’m getting my endurance back, I don’t think I realised how much I relied on the stuff to keep me going.
I was literally fueled by Kratom, what a weird thought?
Still, “it’ll pass”, as my Granma used to say
9:39 pm
January 14th, 2013
Now I’m clean,i’m sort of having some really weird thoughts about the stuff and I don’t know if it’s because I’m an addict or what but…
Well, I sort of feel like Kratom is a ‘friend’ I’m ditching??
I don’t want to be too hard on it, but I know it’s the type of friend that would lie to your face whilst getting off with your girl?
I really, really, don’t want it to be regulated, but I want there to be more information on the effects and addiction potential, just like there is with alcohol.
I think the whole problem with me it that I’m a horticulturalist by trade and I just kept telling myself it’s just a ‘herbal’ thing, but then so is heroine?
I’ve experimented with lots of plant ‘drugs’ in their pure form and I think I just got a bit cocky?
I have a renewed respect for plants now lol
10:18 pm
January 14th, 2013
Ok i never thought of this before but here are a few things that helped with the symptoms.
Paracetamol x2, these should be taken right before attempting to sleep, don’t over dose, only 8 per 24 hours.
I found these helped somewhat with the restless legs and arms, but only for around 4 hours (but that’s enough when you’ve not slept in 4 days lol)
Clonodine, these also will help you beat the squits and upset stomach, and other symptoms, but they’re an opiate so DON’T go over what it says on the label or you’ll be f**ked!
Lots and lots of hot baths, I mean whenever you feel like it.
When I was WDing badly, I only felt physically normal in the bath, my temperature was kept even and I could relax all those awful muscle spasms that you get.
You even feel better for an hour afterwards even though you slowly cool down to fecking freezing again!
For sleeping, now this takes the most planning, effort and time!
I took 1x tablespoon of valerian root + 1 table spoon of chamomile in around half a point of only just boiled water.
(don’t scoff at herbs,they were what go you into this shit in that first place remember!)
Don’t boil it or you’ll evaporate the oils and then drink before sleep.
Note : this stuff smell like absolute shit and vomit, but you’ll not care after the first 48 hours of no sleep.
Valerian is a powerful drug and along with chamomile, should knock you out for an hour or so (which you’ll be so glad of).
Note: valerian can give some people the most vivid dreams and nightmares (it did me, but they were so weird I actually enjoyed them, watching a man having a fake jaw sewn back on with an needle and thread, is that a nightmare??)
Leave the windows shut no matter how hot you are, because you’ll go icy cold the minute sleep comes and it’s too much effort to get out of bed to shut a window when you need sleep, sleep is the best relief you’ll get.
Try really hard to get out and socialise, you’ll find the old ‘you’ kicking back in and this will give you a rush of enthusiasm to quit.
Don’t just stay at home, I think that I delayed my recovery coz I was so unwilling to leave the house, but when I did my spirit lifted to almost euphoric!
I think we associate being in home with being in WD’s and therefore it’s bares down upon us.
Eat and drink , you”ll be absolutely without an ounce of energy if you don’t, you have to force yourself to eat and drink and trust me, I know how badly you don’t want to.
But if you don’t, it makes your runs and tiredness so much worse.
Keep convincing yourself that everything you are feeling is fake, all the sadness, hopelessness, anger, irritability, lethargy, anti-sociability, it’s all a ball of shite.
you are not responsible for it, your lack of Kratom has left a hole and that is what you are feeling, it’s not you, get angry with it, tell it to piss off, just don’t succumb to it, it generally only last a couple of days.
There will be a nagging melancholy and anxiety left, but that is normal and fades as the days pass.
Relish the return to normality, this is now your drug! If you’re anything like me, the change from Kratom world to the ordinary world (listen to Duran Duran ‘Ordinary World’ the lyrics fit absolutely perfectly with Kratom addiction and WDs).
The ordinary world is there, but it’s not ordinary, you’ll be amazed at how long you’ve been away and how much of it you’ve missed, it’s the most epic feeling on Earth to return here after so long away.
I’m actually LIVING now as opposed to ‘being’.
You are gonna love what’s out there, just don’t give up!!!
12:36 am
January 18th, 2013
Hello,I’m on day 2 of withdrawal from an 11 year kratom habit 40 gr a day including extracts,tincture,and powder.I didn’t get any sleep last night and today going out of my mind with aches,muscle spasms ,Sobbing for no apparent reason,cold and hot flashes,hazy thoughts and no appetite,just thirst.the good news is I’m still here so there u go!
12:41 am
January 24th, 2013
Hi Drobium,
Thank you for the kind words. Today is day 23 off of the K. I’m not even tempted to go back. I can’t say that my mind or socialism is coming back. Most days I really just want to be left alone. There may be some damage … who knows at this point. My wife says that she feels “dumber” after doing it for 3 years … and she’s been quit for over 2 years. I never want to go through that again. How are you holding up?
@ Jennifer & Stephanie, I hope that you are hanging in there. It takes an incredible amount of willpower to persevere through it. But it is worth it. Best of luck to you both.
3:53 pm
January 24th, 2013
As JR was saying it is worth it just to be free of the routine… The hardest part for me was the unknown not knowing if I will ever be right again…It does it is awesome never felt so good… I have been doing kratom for almost 2 years dosing 3 times a day well over an oz habit.. Went cold turkey don’t get me wrong I did jack up the 1st time made it 7 days and right back with it..The 2nd time just did it never looked back and I have been 2mths clean… Ok to help with the w/d try loperamide it is a life saver no restless legs most of the physical withdrawal was gone not all but most.. Just remember the withdrawals will end you will feel so much better it is doable…I love you all this blog has been a huge part of saving me from the “K” I thank you all so very much…
4:26 pm
January 26th, 2013
Thank you JR I’m sure your wife is not dumber but that for some reason we think we are smarter while on it more acting less thinking lol.I am still not quite 100% but sleeping and the worst is over.i also found that I can quit smoking more easily now.when I think back to how this all started I remember that I was suffering silentlly married to a man that was older established rich and abusive.he inflicted so much emotional pain that when I first found kratom it was a blessing,it made me feel stronger more able to endure,it gave me the strength to leave the marriage and start over ,it’s not so much that I am defending kratom but I will say it served its purpose and now it’s time to find my own strength without it.for all of you suffering in silence with withdrawal hang in there you are stronger than you think .
4:46 pm
January 26th, 2013
@jennifer,it’s a whole different ball game when you use it for pain , rock and a hard place, I do not believe aside from Withdrawal symptoms upon stopping that kratom hurts the body or mind unless mixed with other drugs, I have done extensive research on it for years( taking it for so long I wanted to know what it was doing to the body) I would even get checked out once in a while for liver enzyme tests blood tests etc to see if kratom was causing any physical ailments in comparison to opioids ,nothing no physical issues.point being if you are suffering from pain and need relief kratom is not physically damaging like pain killers,etc.noone should live with pain if they can help it I hope you find comfort ,I’m sorry you are hurting.
10:01 pm
January 27th, 2013
Hey JR
I’m holding up well tbh.
I am finding that I’m still getting periods of melancholy, especially first thing in the morning and my energy levels seem to have leveled off at ‘moderate’ , I don’t have half the amount of energy that I did on Kratom and have had a few creeping thoughts of “perhaps I was better off under Krat’?”
But I’m still clean of the stuff, I do get days still where I just want to be alone, but I think it’s getting better slowly.
I think that you have a steep recovery period initially, then it slows off and takes a good while longer to get rid of the lingering lethargy and blues?
Or maybe this is how I was before Kratom, I can’t quite remember lol???
The good sides are that I’m getting more and more social as the weeks pass, I’ve got some job opportunities coming up and also my social calender is fuller than it’s been for over 10 years.
All in all, I’m hopeful that i’ll make a full recovery, I think most of what’s left is mental issues, but we’ve just gotta get on with it and tell them where to piss off lol.
After over 2 1/2 years of being ‘high’ constantly, i’m sure a bit of melancholy is what should be expected.
I do ‘miss’ my time on Kratom for the good aspects, but I also remember that bad parts too and that’s what’s keeping me away from the stuff.
I’m enjoying clear thinking the most, I can even do maths again in my head without writing stuff down
I hope you wife hasn’t had any long term damage? I have researched Kratom in fine detail and have not come across any accounts of permanent memory damage or anything?
Perhaps it just make our brains a bit more lazy or something?
Come to think of it, perhaps my intelligence level’s not where it was, it’s really hard to tell?
I don’t think I’m able to recall things as quickly as before Kratom, but I am able to recall them?
@Jennifer and Stephanie …
I hope you two are still ok and holding in there?
Please give us an update on how you’re both doing and don’t feel like you’re going through this for nothing, there’s light at the end of the tunnel, we’ve proved that
All the best …..
Drobium
4:08 pm
January 28th, 2013
@Dobrium, sounds like you’re a fighter,I’m glad for you thank you for the kind words
@JR I guess you are nearing or at the month mark that’s awesome,really.
As for me I guess withdrawal from an 11 year habit had to have its issues as I ended up dehydrated and screaming from headache pain,(didn’t go to er or dr. Or anything like that)I’m certainly not looking to give “them” and u all know who I men by “them” any excuses to illegalized kratom,I know you all may not feel the same about this but I do believe for some people it warrants use either occasionally or to escape opioids used for pain or an addiction,for me,I still think wow I need that energy back,but like Drobium said I don’t miss the bad parts waiting for that damn truck to come hoping it will come before work so that I’m not sick all day crazy huh! I can’t believe I started so young,I guess for me affording it was not an issue I modeled for a living and made decent money now I know where all the confidence came from lol,I’m doing better thoughi guess you could say the worst is over,just feel very weepy,I’m not a cryer so this is annoying.a friend of mine suggested going to aa or an group meetings,but I don’t think so,I know how some drug users or ex users view us kratom user,like our withdrawal,our addiction couldn’t possible compare and what are we complaining about,I’ll tell you this if the withdrawal I went through with kratom is of no comparison then they should be dead while in withdrawal because I felt like I was dying.all and all I’m HERE going through this with you guys!
2:28 am
January 30th, 2013
We’ve recently discovered our son is addicted to Kratom. He began using it with Kava in a drink at a local Kava bar during his last year of high school. He went away to college and after two semesters came home abruptly so he could return to his addiction at the local Kava bar…full-blown. He’s been spending $30-$60 per day on the drinks. This is more than a “crack” addict spends per day. It’s been a true nightmare for all of us who love him. He cannot see that this drug is destroying him. He’s searched out pyschiatrist to give him relief drugs such as Lexapro, Xanax, Gabba Pentin, Clonapin,Addoral and Trazadone to help relieve the side effects of withdrawal while he was away at college. He is totally messed up from this legal drug in the US. He’s walked away from college, his dreams of a career, his old friends, and his appearance. He looks awful, has lost weight from no appetite or barely an appetite, his complexion and skin has taken a huge hit, he no longer has much interest in any activities other than hanging out with other friends who use this drug and he is delusional at times. It’s a nightmare for his mother and father…we just want our only son back but we can’t find any answers how to get him back. He’s convinced he is not addicted to it. We’ve tried to take him to a rehab to get him to realize he’s an addict but he walked away from that. Our only solution now is therapy. This substance is dangerous and is killing our son! If you are experimenting with this or thinking about trying this drug…please, walk the other way! It’s every parents true nightmare!!! Worst thing is, in the US…it’s legal!!!
1:47 pm
February 1st, 2013
@Ana. I empathize with you. What your son is taking is extract. The most potent form of kratom which is also the hardest to quit and most on here will tell you to stay away from. However, there is another side to this coin. The method in which your son was introduced to kratom is dangerous. Kratom has been very beneficial when taken responsibly just like anything else. It’s a safer alternative to pain meds, anti depressants, etc. I know you didn’t come here to hear that. You are in distress and want your son back. From what you already said he obviously doesn’t fit into the category of people this plant has helped and needs help fast. The best people to talk to are here. We all have PhDs in this stuff and we know more about it than health care providers. I am almost certain I live in your area. If you want to pass along your email we can begin discussing a stragety to get your son off this.
8:07 pm
February 1st, 2013
@ Ana
It’s truly awful that this has happened to you son and at his age I can see how the impacts are far worse than say of a 35 years old man like me.
What I would suggest is that he tapers off the stuff gradually.
DO NOT, get him on to prescription meds, you’ll lose him forever, they are 1000% worse than Kratom.
Although this may sound crazy, you should get hime a bulk supply of Kratom for the time being from a wholesaler (I can give you a link if you want) this means that the monetary side of it at least won’t be a worry for you and him.
You should know that Kratom doesn’t cause psychosis nor does it have any long term physical complaints, that’s not to say it will be easy to get him off the stuff.
Being a teenager, he’s going to be an emotional mess anyway and quitting Kratom will be a nightmare for him and even more for you, but only for the first week to 9 days, after that he’ll return to normal (depending on what normal was, there must be an underlying problem as to why he’s taking it, there always is).
Just don’t worry too much, as long as he’s on Kratom, he not awfully likely to go onto worse stuff, it tends to keep you in a ‘safe’ place whilst you are on it and leaving that ‘safe’ zone isn’t all that attractive tbh.
Don’t push the ‘addict’ thing down his throat, he’ll really REALLY resent it, you need to accept his addiction for the time being and help him to realise that there is a whole ‘new’ exciting world outside of Kratom, which whilst on the stuff, you really do forget about.
There will be a part of him that realises he’s an addict and probably he would like to stop, but the fear of withdrawals is, although not frightening, is enough to put you off stopping.
He needs to learn about the WD process and that it does end and he WILL be able to live without the stuff although it will be hard.
I stopped after 2.5 years of downing Kratom and I knew what to expect and prepared for it.
One thing he won’t be able to do whilst WD’ing is work or college, he needs at least 2 weeks to get rid of the physical WD’s and about another couple to rid himself of the metal aspects that mainly comprise of melancholy and anxiety.
Just rest assured that your son has picked probably one of the safest drugs to get addicted to at least (over alcohol, tobacco etc) there’s really not too much need to be worried that he’s suddenly turned into a heroine addict or something.
I’d actually suggest that the Kava Kava may be more of a problem than the Kratom, the effects are like being drunk somewhat, but with more euphoria.
I was able to work perfectly well and efficiently whilst on Kratom and I’ll even go as far as saying I’ve never worked as well or been more productive as when I was on Kratom, it’s not an evil drug, it’s just a massive pain in the arse if you need to quit it.
At the worst of my habit I was only spending around £60 per month on the stuff and that was for 800 grams , far less than when I was drinking and much much less than any true opiate habit.
I’d suggest the bulk buy as first base, then draw up a tapering chart and get him to taper down to nothing by around 1/2g less each day (depending on how he was taking it, you really need to find out what strain of Krat he’s on and what dosage, if it’s extracts, then it’ll take alot longer for him to quit, but tapering helps loads
For example: I was on around 30-40g per day of green malay and I dropped to 10g after 2 weeks , then went cold turkey and it did suck a bit.
Also, don’t get too hung up on the withdrawal reports above, when we write those we are all mostly withdrawing and are in REALLY negative moods, so everything always seems so much worse when reading them back, looking back I feel all like ‘wtf, why are you being so negative, it’s not ALL bad”.
That’ll be the worst part for you as parents, he’ll resent you and be really negative, hostile, moody, practically every emotions is magnified whilst your brain resets itself after Kratom, so be patient with him and don’t crowd him, most WD’ers want to be left alone.
Just try and remind him of how well he’s progressing and how near he is to getting off the stuff.
Keep pointing out the old systems rebooting, like sex drive, clear vision, memory, curiosity, wanting to socialise etc.
He’ll get better for sure, trust me
If you need any more help please let me know.
That goes for any of you guys who need advice.
8:20 pm
February 1st, 2013
@Stephanie
Kratom WD’s for someone who’s not experienced WD’s are bloody awful!
It’s like saying to someone who has influenza that it doesn’t hurt or doesn’t make you as ill as Plague, you still both feel like absolute shite and both don’t want to be there.
It really winds me up when crack heads try to trump your WD’s, what the f**k is the point??
We all suffer the Wd’s as payment for all the good bits, as I said before, Kratom for me was 60/40 in favour of good, it’s not evil, just like alcohol isn’t evil when used properly.
And one day I seriously will consider using Kratom again, maybe even if it’s just as a test of my resolve?
9:58 pm
February 2nd, 2013
@Ana Litik
I have to disagree with you. I have been struggling with Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue, and Anxiety for 7 years. After seeing 6 different specialists and trying all sorts of treatments, trigger point injections, physical therapy and god knows how many different anxiety, muscle relaxer and pain medications I was still in pain, exhausted, anxious and now broke. I realized that none of this was helping, i was tired of being broke due to all my medical bills, and came to the conclusion that the stress of having to go back and forth with my dr office & health insurance was causing me more anxiety and pain. No one, especially someone as young as myself, should have to take 5 different medications 2-3 times a day. I decided enough was enough and so I decided to get off these crazy medications and started looking into alternative & natural medicine.
After speaking with multiple doctors, alternative & naturopathic doctors, and doing research for myself, I decided that herbal medicine was my best bet as theres no cure for fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue and anxiety medicine makes you feel out of it. I first tried a few different herbal remedies and then I was recommended to try kava for anxiety & was told that kratom can help with pain & fatigue. After doing research I found that they are 100% natural, have been used for over 3,000 years as medical treatment, and that even pharmaceuticals are exerting some efforts in creating kratom-based medicines. I also discovered that there are kava bars locally that I could go to instead of having to order online.
I have been going to a kava bar for over a year now and I have to say that it has helped me tremendously. In fact, a lot of the customers that go to kava bars are doctors, chiropractors, acupuncturists, or are in the medical field themselves. Since I have been going I have only had one panic attack, i am only taking 1 medication which is due to my CFS, and my daily pain level has gone from an 8 down to a 3. Kratom has never given me withdrawls or caused me to become addicted. I have found that kava and kratom has proven to be significantly beneficial to me.
Taking all of those medications was a lot worse than taking something natural like kava &kratom. In fact, there are people who take it that are recovered drug addicts and it helps them from turning back to drugs. The people you will find at kava bars are everyone from doctors, chiropractors, acupuncturists, to recovered addicts, to people such as myself who have fibromyalgia, anxiety, lupus, depression, or some other medical condition.
I think your son is either struggling with anxiety or another medical issue, was miserable being away from home, or hated his college, but I don’t believe your son would return home from college just to be close to a kava bar. You might want to consider the idea that your relationship that you have with your son could be a factor in the way he feels and acts. I was terrified when I moved away to college, I was 18 and all of a sudden becoming an adult and the fact that I did not have a close relationship with my family like all my other friends did caused an overwhelming amount of stress and emotional pain for me. I would suggest working on strengthening the communication & relationship you have with your son before blaming it on something such as Kratom. Yes, he might be spending a lot at the kava bar, but it’s probably because of a huge amount of anxiety and it’s definately better than him turning to drugs.
8:17 pm
February 11th, 2013
I had a 2 year kratom addiction Crushed bali about 5 to 6 t spoons a day. I am on day 7 and it’s been a hard 7 days. Almost 0 sleep and tons of discomfort that feels like pain. The worst of it came the first 3 days. I quit because I was tired of living my life in fear. Fear of being a bad father, Fear of running out and having to experience the W/Ds, fear of flying and having to smuggle kratom on my body or in some container hoping to avoid having to explain what it is to security at the airport. Mostly fear of knowing that I was at a point that it just didn’t matter if I took it because I knew that no matter what I was going to feel like Crap because now I was using it to just feel normal and that was barely working. I shouldn’t need to shovel kratom down my throat to take my kids to the park. Thats what I’ve been doing for two years now. Leaning on this plant to give me the courage to face the day when all I really want is to give my family and friends back my true self not someone hopped up on drugs. Before this last two year binge I had similar runs each a year maybe two. This has been going on for 10 years and I have maybe quit three or four times each time being harder than the next. The longest I have ever succesfully stayed off the K with prior attempts to stop was maybe a month. This time I know I am done for sure. I had an epiphany the day I quit. My oldest boy just turned 10 and I pretty much have been medicating his entire life which means he’s never really even ever met the real me. I may not be able to stop for myself, but I know that I can do it for them! I quit for my children! Find a reason and just stop. One last note. I have always quit cold turkey because I dont have the willpower to taper! I always want more. I usually will make an attempt to quit lasting 30 hours maybe 48 hours really feeling the pain pushing myself as long as I can. I always fail the first time. But with that failure within a few weeks I always find the strength to try again and the second time going cold turkey is when I find the courage and willpower to stick it out. One thing I have learned these last 10 years is that the next time i quit it will be harder and I don’t ever want to go through this again so I really believe I am done with it. Good luck to everyone!
8:42 pm
February 11th, 2013
One last last note!!! The reason I think that I have thus far always been successful of the 2nd attempt when going cold turkey is this. When I attempt to go cold turkey on my first attempt I have every intention of quitting but the discomfort and pain and everything else that comes with w/d is so unbearable at some point in my mind I realize I am going to cave but I just now want to see how long I can last. Knowing that I’ll probably take kratom at some point seems to help with the fight and help me to hang in there longer. My first attempt this go around lasted slightly less than two days. Heres what I have come to discover. When you do this once you make your second attempt the pain is 30% less. I’ve now quit kratom 5 times and this is how I’ve done it every time. So if tapering doesnt work for you. One friday night after work just test yourself and feel it pushing yourself as long as you can and I don’t mean 8 hours. Atleast 30 hours, more if possible. Feel it! Accept it! And when you make your next attempt it wont be as bad as long as in between the first attempt and the second attempt you don’t go on a K binge. Prepare yourself to try again by taking a little less then just go for it. On my second attempt I hadn’t planned to stop. I took my last dose at midnight on a monday. Usually I wake up and I need another but not that day, I felt OK! Then I thought about my children and how I had been basically On K almost every day of their lives my oldest being 10. I decided to make my second attempt right then and there! Now Im on day 7 feeling alot better than I did on three. But I barely made it two days on my first attempt. My second attempt the first couple days were much easier to deal with.
10:03 pm
February 12th, 2013
I have been free from Kratom for 5 months now. You can look back in the responses and read my story back in Sept 2012. When I wrote that, I was just in the beginning stages of my recovery and I had no clue what the next few months would bring! I went through a time of feeling wonderful and then something would hit me and cause me to be anxious (like my baby getting very sick with a fever and throwing up) or at one point after quiting I chose to have a few drinks with my husband on our anniversary, and those things sent me back into a complete and total panic/anxiety attack and depression which included upset stomache, insomnia, and rapid heart rate that lasted DAYS and sometimes over a week! But they felt like eternity!!!!! I found myself back at the dr office begging for help! I was determined not to get back on Kratom! My dr knew nothing… put me on anti-depressants which made me feel 10x worse! And then she referred me to a heart dr… the heart dr did the most good. After a 24 hr heart monitor and an ultrasound it was determined that i was having palpations and he perscribed me a beta blocker. It was a life saver!!!! Calmed me down, helped me function and within a few weeks he had me weened off of it and I was feeling awesome. Since then (for about 3 months now) I have had very minor issues with craving Kratom and the anxiety. I believe each time the feeling comes over me and I stand strong saying “no way will you control me!” I get healthier and healthier. Mentally and physically!
I also did a lot of research and found that some things I was doing were causing me to have issues in my brain chemisty. Things that suppress the GABA in your brain (Kratom for one), when taken regularly, will cause serious anxiety and depression when stopped… well it takes time and sometimes a whole lot of time to repair those neortransmittors in the brain after being supressed for so long. The key is to naturally boost your seritonin and GABA as much as possible and stay clear of things that supress even for a moment because it can cause a chain reaction and may send you back into a panic attack like it did me… those things to stay away from are Kava… even the regular old sleepy time kava tea you buy at the grocery store. And alcohol… just don’t drink. It’s not worth it and will send you right back into an addiction state before you know it. Take your vits, drink small amounts of caffine and stay away from a sugar. Stress is also a factor… it lowers your GABA.
I just want to encourage you! If you think that you are going to kick this and never have another issue again… you are fooling yourself. Every single person is different in how they withdrawl and how they handle it but one thing is for sure… you will have to say no again! Your flesh will crave what it once had. It will lessen with time… but you will have to stay strong! And YOU CAN stand with confidence! Make the choice now to not allow it to rule in your life and never turn from that. Take on new habits… replace the old and bad with new and good.
And above all keep Jesus center! Run to Him, He is waiting there with open arms. Full of forgiveness, mercy and grace!
Without His never ending love, I would not be free right now!
5 months and forever!!!!!!!!
1:42 pm
March 5th, 2013
I had been taking kratom (green vein borneo) for about two years, with well over a year being steady at 24-48 grams per day. A few days ago I quit cold turkey and found this post. I read the whole thing from start to finish.
First, to the trucker with the really small penis, I have to tell you that, by your own standards, I’m a bigger and stronger man than you. I’ve managed to use benzos as prescribed off and on for nearly two decades without once having an addiction problem with them. Since they are stronger and more enticing than kratom, I guess I have more self control than you. You are just weak and pathetic when it comes to benzos. Or you could get over yourself and understand that we all have our own demons. I wonder, why were you researching “kratom addiction” in the first place?
Everybody here knows that it isn’t the drug’s fault. But that doesn’t mean that a person shouldn’t blame the drug if it helps them. Dealing with addiction is as much a mental game against one’s self as it is anything else. I hate alcohol. I despise it. I see family and friend’s ruining their lives, and I hate alcohol. Does that mean that I am ignorant to the fact that my friends and family are making their own decisions? That it isn’t alcohol’s fault? That billions of people have used alcohol without any problem? Of course not. But if hating it keeps me sober, everybody would be better off to encourage me to keep on hating it. The point is WHATEVER IT TAKES!! What works for you might not work for some, but that doesn’t matter in the least. Also know that you don’t have all the answers. Nobody here does. We can only offer support because we’ve been there and done that. Those who haven’t don’t understand, and we start this journey thinking that we are completely alone. We are not.
Anyway, here’s my two cents on quitting:
First, I think that people are mentally predisposed to tapering or jumping. I’ve tried to taper (not only with kratom but with harder opiates such as IV dilaudid) and I’ve found the withdrawals to be worse. The drugs are just too enticing. If they are there, I will use them (unless I’m clean. Once I’ve been off for a month or so I could sleep with it and it wouldn’t bother me). So, for me, instead of planning a taper I plan a jump. I find that getting into a completely different environment can help. Drugs become part of your environment and most people use drugs under the same conditions each time. This is why a heroin addict can OD with the exact same dose as he took yesterday just fine, just because his body wasn’t primed for the drug because he wasn’t in the same environment. If you’re suddenly in a completely different place surrounded by different people, your body won’t expect the drug quite so much and the withdrawals will be lessened.
Along with environmental considerations also come responsibilities. This can also be a double edged sword. On one hand, being able to lay in bed for a week is a good way to be sure that nothing will get messed up. However, if you’re laying around doing nothing the WD’s will be worse. The alternative is to put yourself into situations where you HAVE to perform. I have to take care of my baby girl. Obviously, I wouldn’t do this while going through heroin withdrawals, but WD’s from kratom are mild enough to be masked with distractions. Kratom is related to coffee, and what I’m experiencing is about as severe (just in an opposite sort of way). I’m not talking about extracts here, to be sure. Obviously, your WD’s might be much more severe, in which case you’ll have to consider that if you have to work or have other obligations that could help or hurt in dealing with WD’s.
The physical symptoms of the WD’s shouldn’t be a surprise and can be combated with OTC medication to varying degrees of success (and risk). I have a sleeping aid that includes GABA, ZMA, melatonin, L-tryptophan, valerian, chamomile, and 5HTP. This is a good combo. The one OTC med that has helped more than anything is loperamide (immodium). This is actually an opioid agonist, and does have abuse potential (though it requires a bit of work). I started taking 24mg every 12 hours, then 20mg, and my plan is to take 20mg only at night for the next couple of days for a total of about 5 days using the loperamide. For me it completely knocked out any physical symptoms, though emotional symptoms still remain but I can’t say for sure that they are due to the kratom, to be honest. I’m seeing my baby daughter for the first time in 8 months. That’s emotional enough. I cry like a baby, but I think I would anyway.
I did have 5 .5mg xanax (that’s one half of one mg) tabs for anxiety. It isn’t the best benzo. I had them for panic attacks, actually. I took them during the first three days. Probably they helped, but the loperamide is what really worked. Now, what’s cool about loperamide is that it won’t make you “feel” anything. It will simply prevent feelings of WD’s. As such, this is probably the first time you will feel “normal” since starting kratom. No RLS at night, but I do miss sleeping like a baby like I did while taking kratom. Hopefully I will be able to find a way to do that without it.
And what of life after kratom? Well, I come from a long line of alcoholics and drug abusers. I drank heavily for a while and then quit, and was sober of everything for well over a year. Then I thought I was cured, I thought I could drink like a normal person, and I stopped going to my support groups. I could share a bottle of wine with my partner or have a bottle of beer during a football game and I was fine. But alcoholism and addiction, for me, are simply symptoms of a much deeper underlying spiritual problem. I have a disease, and I will never be cured. I need constant treatment. So to the person who recently said that they’re not done with kratom, that they will someday take some if only to “test” themselves, I ask: what if you fail that test? Is it really worth it?
Kratom helped me kick my IV dilaudid addiction. It kept cravings for alcohol in check during a time when I really really really wanted to get hammered all of the time. I was able to sleep better than I ever did before. I was able to go to bed early, sleep like a baby, and get up early and be productive all day. But it was still a crutch, and it is time for me to move on. It is time for me to rely on my family and provide my new baby a better reference with respect to how to cope with life’s challenges. If it were all about me, I’d be wasted and high right now, but I’m so much happier with a higher purpose. The work I do with my daughter will be felt generations from now in her children and their children, and whether they are productive members of society or just leaches wasting tax payer money. Which brings me to the most important thing for me, which is finding a higher power. It is counterproductive for me to say that I have regrets, that I really didn’t enjoy the drugs or that I wouldn’t enjoy them again if I did them. I know that I would. I need to be honest about that.
12:43 pm
March 12th, 2013
Hi I’ve been taking kratom for 12 days,I taught it was my s avior got me of methadone pills and oxys and Xanax ,I was pretty much a junkie and taught there was no stopping till death but I start going to meetings and wanted to quit the drugs the withdrawals were so severe that I couldn’t quit until I found kratom.
Now I see by reading posts that it is a powerful drug just like the rest of them,I said I’d just take it for 30 days to get all the hard d rugs out of my system but don’t want to get addicted to it.
I see that I’m switch addiction from one thing to another and I’m just sick of it,can someone give me some advice on 30 days of use will the withdrawals be bad??
12:52 pm
March 13th, 2013
@Clifford. Just one thing, although the withdrawals from kratom are a pain I’m the butt, their is no comparison from the drugs you were taking to kratom. Believe me I have been through withdrawals more times than I can count. As for your question, 30 days will be a walk in the park. For getting off the drugs you were speaking of and sticking to a 30 day plan, this is where kratom is a miracle and I commend you for it. Most of the people here have been taking it for years. That’s why the withdrawals can be challenging. And it’s not so much the withdrawals, it’s the weeks after word until your receptors are back to normal. Maybe at day 20 I would start a taper but you’re going to be fine as long as you stick to your 30 day plan. Good luck.
6:36 pm
March 15th, 2013
Starting a taper today.I have been taking kratom for a little under a year and am at the point that I just don’t want to take it anymore. I don’t even see the benefit of taking it other than to avoid withdrawal.
My dosing schedule for the last few months has been 5 g. right when I wake up and another 5 right before leaving for work in the morning. I’d take another 5 at lunch and then one 5 g. dose in the evening and a little right before bed. So around 25 grams a day.
So, today, I started with a 4 gram dose first thing in the morning and skipped the dose before leaving for work. I took a 4 gram dose at lunch and plan on postponing my evening dose as long as long as possible but will make it another 4 gram dose and then try a 2 gram dose at bed time. So this would be 14 grams total. Going to stick with this for a few days and then cut the doses some more.
Will update. My plan is to see where I am at for the weekend of the 30th (14 days from now) because I will have a four day weekend and will be going to a wedding out of town and other than going to the wedding, I can lay around sick if I feel like it.
Wish I never would have gotten on this stuff. Should have known better considering my propensity to like opiates way too much and become addicted to them. I’ve kicked IV heroin before in a jail cell, so I am confident that I can do this.
Glad to have this forum to talk about it though, because there really isn’t anyone I want to burden with this in my life.
8:44 pm
March 15th, 2013
here I am back again. Day 4, feeling like death warmed over. Fortunate that I don’t have to go back to work until tomorrow. But Lots of anxiety, sadness, pain, guilt , chills, man this sucks so bad. A couple of times today I have considered running out to the local head shop and getting some. I was able to talk myself out of it. I wish everyone the best of luck and perseverance!(myself included)
6:52 pm
March 17th, 2013
I’ve used kratom on & off since I was 16…I’m 23 now and after not using it for 6 months, I’ve blown through 3 pounds of powder in the last 2 months. These withdrawals are awful, nothing like a benzo/oxy addiction though.
My only real symptoms are headache, fatigue, and I have the chills like crazy…been wearing a winter coat inside a 70 degree house and I’m still cold sometimes! It’ll pass though, hang in there everyone.
6:27 pm
March 29th, 2013
Just a word of caution to all male Kratom users. Most people don’t know this — even most doctors don’t — but chornic Kratom use will seriously lower your testosterone levels.
Actually chronic use of any opiate will do that, bu this is a Kratom forum so I’m just letting you know.
And if you’re wondering what’s the big deal about a low testosterone level, a lower interest in sex is the least of your problems. Low T will give you depression, low energy, declining bone density and muscle mass — ultimately even reduced height as you move from your 30s into your 40s and above.
Been there, so I know what I’m talking about. Stopping Kratom also allowed me to stop having to take testosterone injections.
Yet another reason to tough it out and quite Kratom (as if any of us needed another reason).
.
1:29 am
April 1st, 2013
Have any of you heard of essential oils helping with addiction withdrawal and then in general depression, anxiety and panic attacks??? I am learning so much about this right now! I have been completely clean of Kratom for almost 7 months now and was still dealing with slight anxiety and depression BUT since I was introduced to essential oils I haven’t felt any anxiety for about 8 days now! I am amazed at how this is helping me and healing me! I just wanted to share… and wondered if any one else knew of this?
Kim
2:00 am
April 1st, 2013
I began using kratom, extract, in Nov 2012 and I find myself physically dependent. I am so glad to find this site and really need some help and support as I have to get off of this merry go round. I became dependent on benzo’s after a really bad time in my life and got off of them a year ago. I found kratom as an alternative and while it might be to some, I believe that I am just one of those pre disposed to finding myself addicted to anything that changes the way I feel. Both kratom and benzos probably can be taken occasionally by some, I find that one is never enough.
So, here I am again. Facing WD and scared to DEATH. No one knows I have been using kratom and I hope I can look here for support. I am very afraid.
2:51 am
April 2nd, 2013
Starting a taper tomorrow. I just cant face another WD. Was on oxycontin in mid 90″s right after it first came onto the market and was one of the first people to get very addicted very fast. WD from that in a week with the help of some Ativan. Too bad I didn’t stop taking the Ativan bc then I developed an addiction to that…until May 2012. You would think I would have learned my lesson.
So, I am tired and I am scared but I just don’t want to go through another WD,
Hope I can taper this…
4:28 pm
April 3rd, 2013
Kim, will you expand on what you have learned about essential oils as used for withdrawal support? I am on day 1 with a taper and am not sure i am going about this correctly. I would rather have support of additional methods or maybe i will just CT and take Ativan for a week. My finances simply cannot allow one more order. And I am disgusted with myself. I wish I could be responsibile user but I am an addict. Pure and Simple. Thanks in advance.
Alice
5:35 pm
April 3rd, 2013
I must say, getting off this is terrible. I’m not a stupid teenager any more, I should have known better.
1:56 pm
April 4th, 2013
Today is the third day in a row since the end of my taper and I just feel bad. No energy but I’ve been through worse. We’ll see how it goes, but I don’t see any change from yesterday to today.
2:51 pm
April 4th, 2013
Alice, I am with you! I know exactly what you are saying when you say one is never enough. I have found myself addicted to several things over the years… several. The most important thing to do is 1, rely on God… it is Him who holds healing emotionally and physically for you and 2, replace the old habit with something new and good. Like, instead of making of me making my “drink” of Kratom before leaving the house to go do something with my family, I now make an ice water with lemon oil that helps detox and fights depression. And I carry it with me just like I used to carry the Kratom. Does that make sense? Replacing it makes it not so hard and a little easier to say no to.
kedwards909ATgmail
I have found that essential oils (pure, theraputic grade) have done wonders for me in the area of addiction and anxiety. I would love to share a video talking more about it and a website where you can look testimonies up. It’s amazing! And natural! And God created… only if you are using a pure, ingestable, no chemicals added, organic brand. There are only a few out there.
Feel free to email me more questions and I will send you that video I found in my own research and share with you that site.
May God cover you with His healing power and grace. I pray you find peace in Him as you are going through this and that you are rewarded back everything the devil has taken away!!!! You can do this and everything is going to be just fine!
3:33 pm
April 4th, 2013
Do not beat yourself up Mark. I think it’s easier if we forgive ourselves. I am on day 4 and already looking for excuses to give up. My heart is racing, my whole body hurts and everything is just too much for me. I feel like its going to be like this forever. I know that there is something better beyond today-if I can just get through it.
11:06 pm
April 6th, 2013
Hi Alice,
It’s a brave thing to do…. to quit being a slave to the K. There’s something about Kratom that is a blessing and a curse. Personally, I have been clean for 3 months now … and just in the past couple of weeks it’s all I can do to not go get some more. Call it depression … call it whatever. I was on the extracts for a year and spent 10k last year. I can’t say that mentally I’m ok…. I am trying to work it out. I’m sad, despondent most of the time…. I hate life…. and the worst thing of it all is that I am hurting the woman who is the most important thing in the world to me…. my wife. If you need additional support … I could give you my email address – or you can connect via yahoo IM – I’m osxmaniac. Best of luck to you.
1:01 pm
April 9th, 2013
day nine. still feel like crap. no energy, can’t really eat, no memory. again, gotta pay the piper eventually and this will pass. never going back here again. dumped 300 grams of maeng da in the toilet the other day. screw this shit.
11:05 pm
April 9th, 2013
@ JR
You could try getting hold of some Sceletium tortuosum (kanna)
It’s a non addictive, no side affect, highly effective anti depressant.
It takes around a week or two to kick in, but the effects are amazing.
Have a read up about it?
1:52 am
April 11th, 2013
Drobium,
I have heard of it. I will look into it further.
Thanks man.
8:37 pm
April 11th, 2013
heh,
just emailed my former kratom dealer about kanna. turns out he has it in stock and if it’s anything like his kratom, it’s going to be totally legit. I could use the emotional stability at this point because every little thing feels life or death and makes me want to break down into tears. It’s been 11 days. Hopefully the end is in sight. I don’t miss the kratom at all, but I do miss feeling human.
10:34 pm
April 21st, 2013
Can i just echo what has possibly already been added here,
I was addicted to K for about 2 1/2 years. I stopped 6 days ago and i am still feeling the affects of wd. I am also losing sleep due to the rls however it has calmed a bit now, no downside or mood swings but sneezing and getting runny nose and tickle throat. I started occasionally on 1 t spoon of super indo k after reading that it can help stress which i feel affected at work. It did help me get through the day but I did notice i was losing concentration and not taking things in as much as i use to.
I did up my intake but remained on about a 100grams a month and taking about 3-4 tspoons a day depending how I was at work.
I promised myself that one day i would give it up and the opportunity came when my last order did not show up and i have no back up supply. I went/ am going through hell with wd but now know that i dont want to go through it ever again. I am now clean, clear headed and feeling positive with life.
What i dont understand is some of you that come in here and dis other addicts, do we want to hear that you have such great willpower, to moderate your intake? Do you really think we wanted to get addicted in the first place? I have also stopped smoking but started from having the od one or two when having a drink then before i knew i was having one at work and so on until I was on 20 a day. K is the same, you dont realise that you are hooked until its too late and yes some may be taking more than what they should but they have reasons for this which they have explained. Please provide inspiration for these people instead of bringing them down just cause you think your not hooked, try never taking K ever again and see if you can handle it!
Yes its possibly abused and should be taken in moderation but people have there reasons for this and are trying to do something about it so well done to the lot of you!
5:09 pm
April 22nd, 2013
How long after quitting does it take before the RLS slows up enough to sleep?
7:11 pm
April 22nd, 2013
I am fighting kratom withdrawal for about 6 days now. The depression concerns me the most- so bleak of an outlook on my life! I quit a life-time of drinking 7 months ago, along with prescription pain killers. I am trying now to dump the last monkey on my back. I sure hope things improve soon.
1:58 am
April 23rd, 2013
Hi is there any one just quitting using. I’m on my second time around and really do not want to go in another treatment center how do I go about this I have disappointed my family for the last time and feel so awful that I would hurt them in this way, What do I do?
4:44 am
April 25th, 2013
Stacey,
Just penned a reply and somehow “lost” it. So sorry. Will reply with my experience tomorrow as it is late. See Kim’s April 4 reply to me. It is comforting and hopeful. More to come later. You can do this.
Alice
7:46 am
April 27th, 2013
Hi Alan, its been over a week nearly two for me and i an still getting the od Rls but its easing off now and starting to get a better sleep now. Try valarien root extract, you get em out any herbal store, they help you sleep and it will go, just keep away from the K
.
12:38 pm
April 27th, 2013
Hi Stacey I know it may be hard at first But keep on at it, if you feel down keep drinking water and try herbal remedies that may help keep you calm. I have found that listening to meditation apps also help. You will have ups and downs but the ups will start to become more than the downs, just try and be positive and when you feel down, go do something instead to take your mind off it.
It will get better as long as you want to do it. Just remember the reasons why you wanted to give it up in the first place, mine was the money and also my family and my new born daughter
3:26 pm
April 29th, 2013
Took eighteen days for the withdrawals to be completely gone for me, and I was only using maeng da leaf, not an extract. Not nearly as debilitating as heroin withdrawals, but still a day in day out horror show for almost three weeks.
I needed amphetamines to have the energy to work, benzos and valerian to sleep (and sometimes that just wouldn’t do it either).
Now that it’s finally all out of my system, I can say that I have had no craving for the stuff, but I was really done with it when I quit so I didn’t expect to.
I wasn’t expecting to be as emotionally unavailable as I was throughout the whole process. I couldn’t see anything past the withdrawals but at the same time would have serious moments of utter despair concerning life and my relationship, but couldn’t even figure out the feelings because of the withdrawal.
Getting off that shit was a bumpier ride than I really expected, but I am so glad that it’s over with.
If you want to quit, rather than just want to want to quit, you can do this, especially if you’ve kicked any serious opiates before.
9:29 am
May 1st, 2013
I used kratom for four months andI am beginning quitting Kratom. I am on my fifth day. I had no idea what I was in for. I quit cold turkey after working my way up to 2-3 grams a day. I was also using Kava Kava and quitting that also. I experienced, on day one chills, sweating, insomnia, anxiety and RLS. I only had a few hours sleep, but the need to walk around my house for hours drove me mad. I had an appointment the next day with my doctor and she didn’t have any Idea what kratom was. She prescribed me an SSRI and after I took it my nightmare started. Now I don’t know if this was a conflict with the Kratom or just a coincidence, I took the SSRI on the second day and it seemed to intensify the effect of the withdrawl. I stopped and went back to the doctor, she prescribed a benz for the panic attacks and a non buprin for the panic also, but long term. Today being my fifth day, I still have the RLS and I am only sleeping for about an hour at a time for a total of maybe four hours through the day. I did have some kava left on the first day and it helped alot. I would suggest someone to try it to soften the withdrawl, However, that is addictive also but it may be of some use. I have spent time walking around malls and trying to stay busy to get the energy out of my legs. I am still not able to lay down and rest, I’ll try to post my progress.
8:56 pm
May 1st, 2013
I’m going to look into this kanna. Sounds promising. Even though K has been very successful in keeping me away from alcohol, I’m just done. You all know that feeling. I just want to lead a natural life. Anyway, I’ll let everyone know my findings.
10:48 am
May 3rd, 2013
Well this is an update.
I am on my sixth day of recovery after four months of use and there are some improvements to report. Frist the RLS has minimized and I am able to lie down and rest. There is some movement but I am able to fall asleep for a longer time. (about 6 hours today) Because of the Klonopin and Buspirone, which I believe are kicking in well, I am feeling much better with any anxiety or panic attacks of withdraw. I would suggest that you visit the doctor and insist on some type of benzodiazepine to get through the tough times. I’ve spent time working the nervous energy off that seems to be a big part of the first few days. I would window shop at every store and get a milk shake with some espresso. The espresso gave me a little buzz which was welcomed. Also, I’ve taken some OTC sleeping pills and melatonin before bed time to help. The first few days were hard, but I am glad that I hung in there. You have to get out and distract yourself during that period or you will shut in and just focus on your withdraw. I know I have a way to go, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now. I’ll report later.
4:46 am
May 7th, 2013
Hi, off and on kratom for the last 2 years. Only 4mg twice daily most of the time. I currently have over a month clean from kratom. I enjoyed kratom but found after a while I was becoming addicted. For me getting off kratom was the easiest tapering down some before stopping. I would go from twice a day to once and day and then after a week or so I would then go to every other day. After a few weeks of tapering like this its pretty easy to stop. The hardest part is not ordering any more kratom. I went through this about 4 times in a year and finally made it more than a month without ordering more =)
It can be done and without too much suffering. Just drop down your dosage before totally stopping…
6:00 am
May 9th, 2013
This is an update after 12 days of cold turkey
I have some better news to report. I am sleeping regular now and the restless legs have stopped. (RLS stopped on the 6th day) I must admit, I am confronting the issues that I tried to escape by taking kratom in the frist place and this has caused some depression and serious reflection. However, at least I can meet them head on and not be distracted leaving unfinished business in my life. Oh yea, the bowel movements, which were painful and required laxitives and stool softners, are normal now. That alone is a big payoff. My plan of action at this point is to countinue with the Buspirone and maybe discuss a SSRI with my doctor later. So I will handle my depression with meds rather than Kratom. Kratom was a disaster for me and I’m glad that the trying first days of cold turkey are over. It was worth it and I suggest that everyone just hang in there. Read my earlier posts on how to handle those days. I doubt we had any idea this would happen with Kratom. Kratom? No thanks.
3:04 pm
May 9th, 2013
Have been on Kratom on /off for 1-1/2 year. Tired of hassle w/ toss and wash, so simplified things by going w/ Full Spectrum Tincture (This is the part of the movie where they play the foreboding music to foreshadow the coming train wreck.)
In short time, worked up to dosing 20 drops during day, and 5 drops at bed to sleep thru the night. Took stock of situation after a moment of clarity, that I no longer felt the energy that flowed through me when I first engaged this botanical Siren.
I decided to disengage abruptly. Left it at my office (I’m General Contractor and have a small office by myself) leaving for the weekend and figured I’d ride out the weekend and be ready to go come Monday.
I did not dose before leaving Friday PM. Needless to say about 2 AM, the train came off the tracks. Left the bedroom (as to not wake the wife) and spent the rest of the night in the guest room. The chills, sweats and brain freak began in earnest. At 7 AM left note for wife (some BS about checking on a job) and drove directly to the loving arms of my Enchantress. After dosing, sat in chair waiting for the near instant relief that would come, and mulling over the horror of realizing the f***ing Servant had become the Master.
Quick history: Never had any previous opiate addiction, but always enjoyed the occasional Narco script that came with dental work or whatever. Had discovered Kratom after deciding to stop drinking and had read that Kratom was a great ally to have during initial cessation of alcohol ( This proved to be utterly true, stopped six months ago a never looked back).
Now that the worm had turned, I immediately started investigating how I was going to solve this mess. Found BL during research and read every thread about Kratom WD. After a week, devised this plan:
Found a base line dose, that I took every six hours, that kept me level. Ended up starting around eight drops per dose. Every four days lowered dose by one drop. Got down to one drop, every six hours. Then took the extra step of diluting in water in a measured container, to where I actually was dosing ½, then ¼ drop every six hrs. Then jumped one weekend.
During my taper, the initial drop in each dose would cause minor WD symptoms for a couple days, but nothing even CLOSE to cold turkey. Would take Phenibut for a couple days and Zolpidem @ night with some Benadryl for sleep.
The jump weekend, even at that low of dose, raised the intensity, but nowhere near some of the stories read here. Couple of weeks later, feel fine. Lucky I guess, there was no overwhelming mental fallout.
In conclusion: This plan definitely worked for me. It goes without saying, you have to mentally prepare yourself for the drawn out taper schedule, and if you have a weak moment and go off the dose schedule, you’re just adding time to your sentence.
Went to office following week and threw that wretched bitch into the garbage. And so my love affair ended. Good f***ing riddance.
Peace.